I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough energy for it.
There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the projects themselves; a. www.apache.org b. incubator.apache.org c. community.apache.org As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format, and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow". That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work, especially since I think peer review is very important, since language matters for policy and such. *I* am also very positive to alternate language community.apache.org mailing lists. ch...@community.apache.org could be a start, and from there it should be possible to gauge the interest. For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese WhatsApp-like app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be directed to ch...@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a semi-busy list from the start. Niclas On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here to > help translate. But need to consider what contents and a streamline user > experience. Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM > To: dev@community.apache.org > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China > Community > > Localized content is a great suggestion. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr] > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM > To: dev@community.apache.org > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China > Community > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or > "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able > currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP: > staying short, I'm not convinced > > What about creating localized content in > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780a87344cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1RvsCGO3%2fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d > , pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on > explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to > deal with the fact that Apache projects are done in english? > > Because I don't see: > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say > it because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common > convention, and it cost me to learn it :) ) > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at > helping people work with other TLPs > > WDYT? > > Regards, > > Hervé > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit : > > Ted, > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening. > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere. > > > > What exactly do you want to happen? > > > > What good thing is not happening? > > > > What bad thing is happening? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Niclas, > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here. > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC > > > members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together > > > voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents > > > and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the > > > local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese > > > ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust, > instead of any individual new to ASF. > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans > > > Wechat social group > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a > > > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your > > > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and > > > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger > > > generation contributors would not tolerate. > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense > > > of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still > > > at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and > > > events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are > > > language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China > > > community/group can contribute. > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedh...@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache > > > China Community > > > > > > Ted, > > > 2 things... > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011. > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are > > > not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very > > > little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they > don't. > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in > > > Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older > > > generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like > > > a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope > > > that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm > slightly differently. > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I > > > have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation > > > services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are > > > soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this > gap. > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the > > > participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be > > > formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors > > > would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I > > > am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect > > > contribution to ASF and other projects. > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of > > > single big one. > > > > > > Keep up the positive work. > > > > > > Niclas > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC, > > >> > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans > > >> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be > possible? > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below. > > >> > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China, > > >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public > services. > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe. > > >> org > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef > > >> 408 > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iF > > >> CsX > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d< > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww > > >> .ka > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2 > > >> 300 > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata > > >> =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first > > >> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source > > >> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 > > >> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps > > >> between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and > > >> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was > > >> on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot > > >> the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China. > > >> > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by > > >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with > > >> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett > > >> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. > > >> Please see more roadshow details here. > > >> > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a > > >> pac > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2 > > >> 300 > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d< > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a > > >> pac > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4 > > >> b8a > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata > > >> =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw > > >> itt > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4 > > >> 006 > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf8 > > >> 6f1 > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37 > > >> CWt > > >> EOXwqg%3d< > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw > > >> itt > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4 > > >> 006 > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf8 > > >> 6f1 > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWh > > >> dX0 > > >> GFRwPs%3d > > >> - annou...@apache.org<mailto:annou...@apache.org> (and archives) > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list > > >> - > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa > > >> che > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084 > > >> 457 > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M > > >> 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d< > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa > > >> che > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a31 > > >> 4f8 > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1Dd > > >> EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d> > > >> home page > > >> > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a > > >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended > > >> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or > > >> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many > > >> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers, > > >> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the > > >> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow > > >> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF > > >> and the fans in China following the Apache way. > > >> > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in > > >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev > > >> would be greatly appreciated. > > >> > > >> > > >> Ted Liu > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member > > >> of KAIYUANSHE > > -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
