-1 for all the same reasons mentioned On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 2:29 PM Robert Burke <rob...@frantil.com> wrote:
> I'm -1 on GitHub discussions. > > If anything the user can just file a GitHub issue for the same purpose, if > they prefer the GitHub interface over emails. In theory, GHDiscussions can > be better for very active topics, but honestly I don't think we have that > sort of throughput. > > Having payed attention to a few uses of the Go Programming Language use > of GitHub features, i found the Discussions lead to *more* repetitive > threads and points, since folks are emboldened to not pay attention outside > of their local thread in the discussion. > > I can't see much of a meaningful difference between them and using the > Apache Slack instance, which can also have threaded micro discussions. > > On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 11:07 AM Robert Bradshaw via dev <dev@beam.apache.org> > wrote: > >> I'm also -1 on introducing another forum, and concur with Alexey that >> mailing lists are a (required) deep part of the culture for apache >> projects. >> >> If there's something qualitatively and significantly different about >> discussions that makes it a better fit, I would consider it. (E.g. IMHO the >> structure/format of stack overflow lends itself much better to scalable >> user support than a mailing list, which is why it makes sense to be there.) >> The statement about "folks to get[ting] unblocked on small/medium >> implementation blocker" is important, and we should definitely encourage >> people to more actively use the existing lists for this purpose rather than >> having out-of-band discussions when possible which will be helpful to the >> larger community. (Not seeing how this is unique to GH Discussions though.) >> >> (I'm also skeptical of "GH Discussions is more discoverable and >> approachable for new users and contributors." I definitely think it makes >> sense to meet users where they are, but while I know many developers that >> don't actively use github (some don't even have an account), I don't >> (personally) don't know any that don't have an email address which is a >> good lower common denominator. But maybe that just dates me...) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 5, 2023 at 7:22 AM Jack McCluskey via dev < >> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote: >> >>> Also going to be -1 on this one, I'm not sure we pick anything up from >>> adding a forum apart from adding another place that needs to be checked. >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 4:03 AM Jan Lukavský <je...@seznam.cz> wrote: >>> >>>> -1 >>>> >>>> Totally agree with Byron and Alexey. >>>> >>>> Jan >>>> On 7/3/23 21:18, Byron Ellis via dev wrote: >>>> >>>> -1. This just leads to needless fragmentation not to mention being at >>>> the mercy of a specific technology provider. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 11:39 AM XQ Hu via dev <dev@beam.apache.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> +1 with GH discussion. >>>>> If Airflow can do this https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions, >>>>> I think we can do this as well. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 9:51 AM Alexey Romanenko < >>>>> aromanenko....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> -1 >>>>>> I understand that for some people, who maybe are not very familiar >>>>>> with ASF and its “Apache Way” [1], it may sound a bit obsolete but >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> lists are one of the key things of every ASF project which Apache Beam >>>>>> is. >>>>>> Having user@, dev@ and commits@ lists are required for ASF project >>>>>> to maintain the open discussions that are publicly accessible and >>>>>> archived >>>>>> in the same way for all ASF projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> I just wanted to remind a key motto at Apache Software Foundation is: >>>>>> *“If it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen.”* >>>>>> >>>>>> — >>>>>> Alexey >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] https://apache.org/theapacheway/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1 Jul 2023, at 19:54, Anand Inguva via dev <dev@beam.apache.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 for GitHub discussions as well. But I am also little concerned >>>>>> about multiple places for discussions. As Danny said, if we have a good >>>>>> plan on how to move forward on how/when to archive the current mailing >>>>>> list, that would be great. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Anand >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2023, 3:21 AM Damon Douglas <douglas.da...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm very strong +1 for replacing the use of Email with GitHub >>>>>>> Discussions. Thank you for bringing this up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 7:38 AM Danny McCormick via dev < >>>>>>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for starting this discussion! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm a weak -1 for this proposal. While I think that GH Discussions >>>>>>>> can be a good forum, I think most of the things that Discussions do are >>>>>>>> covered by some combination of the dev/user lists and GitHub issues, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the net outcome of this will be creating one more forum to pay >>>>>>>> attention >>>>>>>> to. I know in the past we've had a hard time keeping up with Stack >>>>>>>> overflow >>>>>>>> questions for a similar reason. With that said, I'm not opposed to >>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>> it out and experimenting as long as we have (a) clear criteria for >>>>>>>> understanding if the change is effective or not (can be subjective), >>>>>>>> (b) a >>>>>>>> clear idea of when we'd revisit the discussion, and (c) a clear path to >>>>>>>> rollback the decision without it being *too *much work (this might >>>>>>>> mean something like disabling future discussions and keeping the >>>>>>>> history or >>>>>>>> somehow moving the history to the dev or user list). If we do this, I >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> think we should update >>>>>>>> https://beam.apache.org/community/contact-us/ with a clear >>>>>>>> taxonomy of what goes where (this is what I'm unsure of today). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FWIW, if we were proposing cutting either the user list or both the >>>>>>>> user and dev list in favor of discussions, I would be +1. I do think >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> advantages of discussions over email are real (threaded, easy to >>>>>>>> convert >>>>>>>> to/from issues, markdown, one place for all things Beam). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Danny >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 10:23 AM Svetak Sundhar via dev < >>>>>>>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wanted to start a discussion to gauge interest on enabling Github >>>>>>>>> Discussions <https://docs.github.com/en/discussions/quickstart> >>>>>>>>> in Apache Beam. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pros: >>>>>>>>> + GH Discussions allows for folks to get unblocked on small/medium >>>>>>>>> implementation blocker (Google employees can often get this help by >>>>>>>>> scheduling a call with teammates whereas there is a larger barrier for >>>>>>>>> non-Google employees to get this help). >>>>>>>>> + On the above point, more visibility into the development >>>>>>>>> blockers that others have previously faced. >>>>>>>>> + GH Discussions is more discoverable and approachable for new >>>>>>>>> users and contributors. >>>>>>>>> + A centralized place to have discussions. Long term, it makes >>>>>>>>> sense to eventually fully migrate to GH Discussions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cons: >>>>>>>>> - For a period of time when we use both the dev list and GH >>>>>>>>> Discussions, context can be confusing. >>>>>>>>> - Anything else? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To be clear, I’m not advocating that we move off the dev list >>>>>>>>> immediately. I propose that over time we slowly start moving >>>>>>>>> discussions >>>>>>>>> over to GH discussions, utilizing things such as the poll feature. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am aware that the Airflow project [1] uses both GH Discussions >>>>>>>>> today and a dev@ list [2] today. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions >>>>>>>>> [2] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@airflow.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Svetak Sundhar >>>>>>>>> Data Engineer >>>>>>>>> s <nellywil...@google.com>vetaksund...@google.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
