I'm also -1 on introducing another forum, and concur with Alexey that mailing lists are a (required) deep part of the culture for apache projects.
If there's something qualitatively and significantly different about discussions that makes it a better fit, I would consider it. (E.g. IMHO the structure/format of stack overflow lends itself much better to scalable user support than a mailing list, which is why it makes sense to be there.) The statement about "folks to get[ting] unblocked on small/medium implementation blocker" is important, and we should definitely encourage people to more actively use the existing lists for this purpose rather than having out-of-band discussions when possible which will be helpful to the larger community. (Not seeing how this is unique to GH Discussions though.) (I'm also skeptical of "GH Discussions is more discoverable and approachable for new users and contributors." I definitely think it makes sense to meet users where they are, but while I know many developers that don't actively use github (some don't even have an account), I don't (personally) don't know any that don't have an email address which is a good lower common denominator. But maybe that just dates me...) On Wed, Jul 5, 2023 at 7:22 AM Jack McCluskey via dev <dev@beam.apache.org> wrote: > Also going to be -1 on this one, I'm not sure we pick anything up from > adding a forum apart from adding another place that needs to be checked. > > On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 4:03 AM Jan Lukavský <je...@seznam.cz> wrote: > >> -1 >> >> Totally agree with Byron and Alexey. >> >> Jan >> On 7/3/23 21:18, Byron Ellis via dev wrote: >> >> -1. This just leads to needless fragmentation not to mention being at the >> mercy of a specific technology provider. >> >> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 11:39 AM XQ Hu via dev <dev@beam.apache.org> >> wrote: >> >>> +1 with GH discussion. >>> If Airflow can do this https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions, I >>> think we can do this as well. >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 9:51 AM Alexey Romanenko < >>> aromanenko....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> -1 >>>> I understand that for some people, who maybe are not very familiar with >>>> ASF and its “Apache Way” [1], it may sound a bit obsolete but mailing lists >>>> are one of the key things of every ASF project which Apache Beam is. Having >>>> user@, dev@ and commits@ lists are required for ASF project to >>>> maintain the open discussions that are publicly accessible and archived in >>>> the same way for all ASF projects. >>>> >>>> I just wanted to remind a key motto at Apache Software Foundation is: >>>> *“If it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen.”* >>>> >>>> — >>>> Alexey >>>> >>>> [1] https://apache.org/theapacheway/index.html >>>> >>>> On 1 Jul 2023, at 19:54, Anand Inguva via dev <dev@beam.apache.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 for GitHub discussions as well. But I am also little concerned about >>>> multiple places for discussions. As Danny said, if we have a good plan on >>>> how to move forward on how/when to archive the current mailing list, that >>>> would be great. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Anand >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2023, 3:21 AM Damon Douglas <douglas.da...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm very strong +1 for replacing the use of Email with GitHub >>>>> Discussions. Thank you for bringing this up. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 7:38 AM Danny McCormick via dev < >>>>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for starting this discussion! >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm a weak -1 for this proposal. While I think that GH Discussions >>>>>> can be a good forum, I think most of the things that Discussions do are >>>>>> covered by some combination of the dev/user lists and GitHub issues, and >>>>>> the net outcome of this will be creating one more forum to pay attention >>>>>> to. I know in the past we've had a hard time keeping up with Stack >>>>>> overflow >>>>>> questions for a similar reason. With that said, I'm not opposed to trying >>>>>> it out and experimenting as long as we have (a) clear criteria for >>>>>> understanding if the change is effective or not (can be subjective), (b) >>>>>> a >>>>>> clear idea of when we'd revisit the discussion, and (c) a clear path to >>>>>> rollback the decision without it being *too *much work (this might >>>>>> mean something like disabling future discussions and keeping the history >>>>>> or >>>>>> somehow moving the history to the dev or user list). If we do this, I >>>>>> also >>>>>> think we should update https://beam.apache.org/community/contact-us/ >>>>>> with a clear taxonomy of what goes where (this is what I'm unsure of >>>>>> today). >>>>>> >>>>>> FWIW, if we were proposing cutting either the user list or both the >>>>>> user and dev list in favor of discussions, I would be +1. I do think the >>>>>> advantages of discussions over email are real (threaded, easy to convert >>>>>> to/from issues, markdown, one place for all things Beam). >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Danny >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 10:23 AM Svetak Sundhar via dev < >>>>>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wanted to start a discussion to gauge interest on enabling Github >>>>>>> Discussions <https://docs.github.com/en/discussions/quickstart> in >>>>>>> Apache Beam. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pros: >>>>>>> + GH Discussions allows for folks to get unblocked on small/medium >>>>>>> implementation blocker (Google employees can often get this help by >>>>>>> scheduling a call with teammates whereas there is a larger barrier for >>>>>>> non-Google employees to get this help). >>>>>>> + On the above point, more visibility into the development blockers >>>>>>> that others have previously faced. >>>>>>> + GH Discussions is more discoverable and approachable for new users >>>>>>> and contributors. >>>>>>> + A centralized place to have discussions. Long term, it makes sense >>>>>>> to eventually fully migrate to GH Discussions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cons: >>>>>>> - For a period of time when we use both the dev list and GH >>>>>>> Discussions, context can be confusing. >>>>>>> - Anything else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To be clear, I’m not advocating that we move off the dev list >>>>>>> immediately. I propose that over time we slowly start moving discussions >>>>>>> over to GH discussions, utilizing things such as the poll feature. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am aware that the Airflow project [1] uses both GH Discussions >>>>>>> today and a dev@ list [2] today. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions >>>>>>> [2] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@airflow.apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Svetak Sundhar >>>>>>> Data Engineer >>>>>>> s <nellywil...@google.com>vetaksund...@google.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
