Hi all, I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here < https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually capture the suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the plane logo is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that the blobby bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to this new angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to what the icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't add any underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract representation of the plane icon. I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2 design to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work, because the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the underside of the plane isn't right for this angle. To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was valid and made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle design. When I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was better than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that it was okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about design is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique opinions on what looks better. But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the *Avro community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing subjective preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community Over Code conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking away from the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just like to encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final vote, because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will ultimately be what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not the marketing and publicity office. To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions of the icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will be V9.2 (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be uploading some revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is chosen) to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but otherwise, the icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all your patience and feedback throughout the process! All my best, Emma On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote: > Great work again! > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for logos > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey the > > desired image > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of sense to > me. > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the underside: this > > makes the plane look incomplete. > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like as a > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper plane are > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon might > bring up IP over Avian Carriers > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>. > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well. > > Kind regards, > Fokko > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind < > opw...@apache.org>: > > > Hi all, > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than V11.2, > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the angle of > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete. > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > Oscar > > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <emma.a.kel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I wanted > > to > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced the > > initial > > > vote in any way! > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions Ryan > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's suggestion > of > > > another possible upwards variant. > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into the > first > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity office. > If > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the upward > > design > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's valid > > and > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the 11.2 > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight > adjustments > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a little > more > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not beat > > out > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of voting, and > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the > community > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon! > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font being a > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed letter. > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I actually > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried when I was > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the PT > Mono > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight might > > not > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon is > > chosen > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a few > more > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if one of > the > > > other fonts will work better in the long run. > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and > publicity > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have to > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark blue in > the > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be difficult > to > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be impossible > > to > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons > for > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to > convey > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo, which > > is a > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if Apple > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective. > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the fonts > and > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see which > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D > > > > > > All my best, > > > > > > Emma > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind < > > > os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours), > and > > > no > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1. > > > > > > > > These are the votes: > > > > > > > > - V9.2: 3 votes > > > > - V10.2: 1 vote > > > > - V11.2: 0 votes > > > > - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1 variant > > was > > > > part of the vote) > > > > > > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and > V3.1. > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough) > > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good > > version > > > > flying > > > > slightly upward > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good > judgement > > > to > > > > determine if that's really an improvement. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1? > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <r...@skraba.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had > the > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours > during > > > the > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific > > > suggestions > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want > to > > > > > capture them here! > > > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down! > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has > serifs > > > and > > > > > the others don't. > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro > in > > > the > > > > > plane's dark blue! > > > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things > > about > > > > the > > > > > initiative! > > > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments > > after > > > > the > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos and > > > > leaving > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion! > > > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <b...@tabular.io> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind < > > > > > > os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks good, > > and > > > > it's > > > > > > > very distinctive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it cannot > be > > > > > > conflated > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opw...@apache.org> > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <r...@skraba.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with V9.2 > > -- I > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane fits > > too > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the vote. > I > > > > think > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía < > ieme...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it is > > > great > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > see the final selection. > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and > everyone! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong < > > > > fo...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the > > > > conversation > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the sideline. > > The > > > > new > > > > > > > > logos are > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the > > > envelope! > > > > > My > > > > > > > vote > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van > Holthe - > > > > Kind > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > os...@westravanholthe.nl>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our > search > > > > for a > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > logo ( > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 < > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554 > > > > >). > > > > > > > > Thanks to > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can > now > > > > > proceed > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > vote on > > > > > > > > > > > the matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image is > > > > > > unreadable, > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are > announced): > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer than a > > > > typical > > > > > > > > release, > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - the vote lasts 2 weeks > > > > > > > > > > > - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V... > > > > ifentifier: > > > > > > > V9.2, > > > > > > > > V10.2, > > > > > > > > > > > V11.2, V3.1 > > > > > > > > > > > - the winner is the logo with at least two (2) votes > > > more > > > > > than > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > runner-up > > > > > > > > > > > - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by simple > > > > majority > > > > > > > > between the > > > > > > > > > > > top picks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opw...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Ryan Blue > > > > > > Tabular > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl> > > > > > > > > > >
