On Thursday 13 August 2015 09:38:03 Brian wrote: > On Wed 12 Aug 2015 at 20:04:41 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > Quoting Brian (a...@cityscape.co.uk): > > > On Wed 12 Aug 2015 at 16:57:33 +0100, Martin Smith wrote: > > > > On 12/08/2015 14:56, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > > > >The care alone, even were there no societal cost, costs several > > > > > orders of magnitude more money than the £145.50 cost of a TV > > > > > licence. The trial alone, too, will have cost more than that! > > > > > Then there is the cost of keeping her in prison. > > > > > > > > that is the problem, we have to punish sinners, we are after all > > > > obsessed opinion. > > > > I am led to believe it demonstrates our righteousness, but that is > > > > not my > opinion. > > > > > > It's called upholding and enforcing the law of the country, not > > > trangressing the will of some other entity. > > > > > > Incidentally. The tale you quoted and replied to is based on "When > > > she goes to prison for non-payment of her licence....". This cannot > > > happen. The maximum penalty is a fine. > > > > This may well be true. I'm not a lawyer: I don't know. However, the > > public perception is that you *can* be imprisoned and so it colours > > discussion of the licence fee. For example, here is a quotation by the > > Incorrect statements colouring discussion hampers fruitful discussion. > > > Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, someone involved at > > the highest level with the licence fee problem: > > > > “It's actually worse than a poll tax because under the poll tax, if > > you were on a very low income you would get a considerable subsidy,” > > he said. > > > > “The BBC licence fee, there is no means-tested element whatsoever; it > > doesn't matter how poor you are, you pay £145.50 and go to prison if > > you don't pay it.” > > Both the Secretary of State and non-lawyers have access to > > http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/363
Yes, but they also have access to common sense. You cannot be sent to prison for non-payment of the licence. But you can be sent prison for non-payment of the fine for non-payment of the licence. So in effect many are sent to prison not for non-payment, if you wish to quibble (and this is not a court of law, where one has to quibble), but because they haven't got any money and haven't paid. It is not too great a stretch of the imagination and language to call that going to prison for non-payment of the licence. Here is what the Guardian said about it fairly recently: <quote> You cannot go to prison for non-payment of your licence fee, but you can be jailed for not paying a fine imposed as punishment for not paying for a licence, and in 2012, 50 people were imprisoned, up from 30 in 2009. Of those, 49 were given a sentence of less than three months; one person was given a sentence of somewhere between three and six months. If convicted, you will get a criminal record, </quote> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/24/in-court-non-payment-tv-licence-television-desperate-cases Then: <quote> Culture Secretary Sajid Javid reports that 10% of magistrate court cases are for non-payment of the BBC licence fee. Non-payment is a criminal offence, punishable by a fine of up to £1,000. Every week about 3,000 people are fined for non-payment, and *****about one person a week is jailed for non-payment of the fine.***** (my stars) Women make up about 70% of those prosecuted and convicted, and half of those jailed for not paying the fine. When people fail to pay other utilities, such as energy companies, they are guilty of a civil offence, not a criminal one, and they cannot be prosecuted and fined for falling behind with their payments. Civil action can be taken for recovery, but without fines and jail terms. Several newspapers have had reporters visit magistrate’s court to describe what goes on. They all tell harrowing stories of frightened, distressed people, mostly women, facing fines they cannot pay under threat of imprisonment if they do not. Many are single mothers, many on benefits. They have not paid the licence fee because they cannot afford to. The sum of £145.50 per year is huge for a young mother struggling to feed and clothe children. Many weep in court, unable to pay the fine for the same reason they couldn’t afford the licence fee; they don’t have the money. </quote> http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/media-culture/non-payment-of-bbc-licence-fee-accounts-for-10-of-prosecutions/ Young single mothers are sent to prison because they have not got the money to pay their TV licences, with the consequences I have already described. Lisi
