Hi all, I'm employed by Google, but I don't speak on Google's behalf, but:
On 2025-01-31 14:33:39, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 02:25:19PM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 at 13:08, Roberto C. Sánchez <[1]robe...@debian.org> > > wrote: > > > > Since we as a project have left Twitter/X (as recently announced by our > > Publicity Team) on the basis of "We do not want to be present in a > > place > > where we cannot ensure that users will be respected and where abuse > > happens without consequences" [0] [1], I would like start a discussion > > about how we as a project can promptly sever ties with Google. > > > > Full disclosure: I am currently employed by Google, and do not speak for > > the company. > > DFSG #6 discusses not discriminating against fields of endeavour. > > I can see the project wishing to cut ties with a social media platform > > that is unable to ensure a minimum level of civil discourse. I'm not > > seeing how this is even remotely equivalent to disengaging from a > > corporate sponsor because of their commercial practices? > > regards > > Andrew > > > The formula I am applying here is directly: > > "We do not want to be present in a place where we cannot ensure that > users will be respected and where abuse happens without consequences." > > "We [Debian] do not want to be present in a place [on Twitter/X] where > we cannot ensure that users will be respected and where abuse happens > [causing certain people to feel unsafe] without consequences > [moderation/banning]." > > It seems quite natural, then, that this follows: > > "We [Debian] do not want to be present in a place [Google Cloud Platform > and other Google services] where we cannot ensure that users will be > respected and where abuse happens [directly assisting the US government > to prepare and execute missions that result in unconscionable civilian > casualties] without consequences [legal reprecussions]." This makes no sense to me. What relation is there between Debian using Google's services/money, and the US government? How would Debian using $1 of Google money would be related to anything that "a user" would do, or that the US government would do? If Debian uses for example CI services hosted on GCP, how is "a user" be affected by whatever the US government does? There are countries in this world that do not respect human rights. Should we, then, restrict our social contract to prevent Debian's use in those countries, because "users" could be harmed by those governments? To me this all smells of communism and cancellation. Either as malicous intent, or as very naive intent, as if in this world there are "good" and "bad" people/organisations, and there's a clear line between them, and the desire to be ideologically pure. Debian as a whole will do whatever Debian decides, but man, this sounds off to me. Maybe because I've lived under communism, so I'm more sensitive to that evil than to whatever-you-think-the-US-government-is. regards, iustin
