On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Neil Williams <codeh...@debian.org> wrote: > On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 08:59:41 +0100 > chals <ch...@chalsattack.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Iain R. Learmonth <i...@debian.org> >> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > It is worth noting that live-build is not a Debian project, it is an >> > external project that claims to be an official Debian project. This >> > is something that needs to be fixed. >> > >> > There is no namespace issue, we are building on the existing >> > live-config and live-boot packages that are maintained and bringing >> > these into Debian as native projects. If necessary, these will be >> > forks, but I'm hoping that won't have to happen and that we can >> > integrate these packages into Debian and continue development in a >> > collaborative manner. >> > >> > live-build has been deprecated by debian-cd, and live-build-ng is >> > replacing it. In a purely Debian context at least, live-build is >> > deprecated. live-build-ng is being developed in collaboration with >> > debian-cd and D-I. >> > >> > I'm aware that I'm going to be upsetting people, but this has been >> > a long time coming and I'm not going to spend time bikeshedding >> > over naming. I would rather spend that time on integration of live >> > image creation into official Debian infrastructure and building the >> > best system for live image creation possible. >> > > > Apologies for making it look like Iain was the only voice on this. I've > been unwell this weekend and Steve has been busy with the miniDebConf > and is now (presumably) catching up on the sleep he lost whilst > organising it. > >> Hi, >> >> Reading what you say, and I beg your pardon before going on, I can >> tell that you absolutely have no idea about what the debian live >> project is or about its history. But well, I have to admit that if >> what you say is true, then you have a point. > > I've been involved with debian-live before. I remember a meeting with > the live team at a previous debconf (Argentina?) where one of my > previous rootfs build tools [multistrap] was being considered for a > role within live but we didn't find a good match. > >> You say "I'm aware that I'm going to be upsetting people, but this has >> been a long time coming" >> >> Yes you are absolutely right, you are upsetting people, people like me >> who have contributed to debian for years and spent hours of effort to >> make things better. > > Sorry, but I'm assuming you don't mean that Iain, Steve or I haven't > spent years contributing and uploading to Debian and years and years of > effort to make Debian better. > >> "A long time coming"? Excuse me, but the first thing I've ever heard >> in all these years is that you and I mean you (not the debian cd team, >> who supposedly is responsible for this upheaval) > > It is the team. Steve has been asking me for this support in > vmdebootstrap for months and months. Every time there is a release or a > point release, I get more nagging because he has to struggle with > fixing live-*.
Would you (or Steve or the Debian CD team) please point to actual real bugs that affected you? You claim it as a reason of debian cd team switch to vmdebootsrap. As a live-build user, I'm interested by these. >> shows up from out of >> the blue claiming that you have the right to do as you please and >> decide about the future of the debian live team. > > Iain is not on his own. This comes from the debian-cd team. Steve has > been nagging me for vmdebootstrap support to replace live-build since > about a week after vmdebootstrap arrived in Debian, certainly before > the Jessie release. > >> This is, from my point of view, an act of dictatorship and with my >> authority as a debian user and contributor for years I demand you step >> down from your position and ask for forgiveness to the debian live >> team for being so rude, impolite and not worthy of any more of my >> priceless words and time. > > Not going to happen. Just what "authority" is a user meant to have? > Those who do the work in Debian earn the right to make the decisions on > how that work is done in Debian.
