Marcus wrote: > Right, RMS changed his opinion on this license shortly before the debate > happened here.
So I noticed. That's how it goes, sometimes. > Which is interesting, because I tend to disagree that it is > free, but oh well ;) In my (previously stated, for those keeping count) opinion, it had the same problem as the Apple "free" license, which inconsequently enough is and was listed as non-free the whole time. I'm glad the issue seems resolved now, as I too disliked the sending-in-the-patches requirement. > > The old BSD > > (obnoxiuous ad clause) is and was listed as free (but > > GPL-incompatible), while it's been considered DFSG-nonfree. > > It is? I am surprised, because I think I remember that we used to > distribute BSD licensed software in Debian before the ad clause was removed? > Or do you mean that only afterwards it was considered nonfree? Actually, someone (I guess I'll have to do it) needs to check this up. I think it was brought up during the Zope discussion and during the discussion of that program that messed up spambots (name escapes me at the moment). > Note: I am happy with software that has such obnoxious ad clauses being > considered DFSG-nonfree, I just try to remember how it used to be. While I think that the required "powered-by"-button of zope is dreadful, I don't really have much of a problem with the old BSD-ad clause, and I don't really see how the DFSG is interpreted to make that non-free (that's why I think I might be in error when I seem to recall that it's been called non-free). It's very obnoxious, though, and we're all better of without it. > Well, it is a fact that it tries to be more detailed and fails. However, I > think the reason was the Debian left GNU and then probably felt the need to > establish their own independent rules. Which is a pity because the > differences are so small, and a lot of effort is put into discussing such > issues, which could simply be saved by following the FSF's view on it, plus > maybe documenting exceptions where they are truly wanted. Then we only > would need to argue about the differences. This would have the additional > effect of making the differences transparent. I agree with you about only arguing about the differences instead of seemingly different things that in reality is exactly the same. (NB: I also see Branden's point when he says that we should not just blindly accept everything the FSF says. I do disagree with some of his arguments against the FSF, though. Or something.) Though the four freedoms of the FSF is a political statement. "These are rights everyone should have when it comes to functional software" - they're easily understandable and they're useful for advocacy and explaining free software. Debian "needs" more detailed guidelines (that's why I was somewhat involved the recent attempts to clarify the DFSG wrt invariant sections) in order to make consistent, understandable judgement about what goes into non-free and what goes into main. I figure that the FSF have some long, opaque guidelines hidden in their vaults somewhere that their lawyer(s) use to decide what goes on the free-list and what doesn't. "Needs" is in quotation marks because sometimes I'm in an extra eristic mood and feel that all the politics is a waste of time and we should just distribute and package up all the software we want to without being subject to "their" (copyrighters) rules, which is arguably all make-believe anyway. Other days I find that it would be better to beat them on their terms and so those days I delve into politics and licensing issues and clarifying guidelines. I'm not very consequent. > > Sunnanvind (headache and hungry and mad at school. Hope it doesn't > > shine through.) > > Didn't notice until now. Food, sleep and hacking should help :) Yeah, it did for a while, but then I slipped on the icy roads in the port and hit my head in the asphalt, so I'm a bit shaken, and I've been involved in the nastiest polygonal relationship drama ever, meanwhile I have to learn all of the SMTP and pop3 protocols for school (sounds easy, but I've never read an RFC before). My life is a soap. I'm a whiner. I'll shut up now. Thanks and aehiilrs, Sunnanvind
