WHOOPS, SORRY. Meant to delete this old draft, not send it. The issue is valid, but sorry for incomplete mail.
On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 04:48:01PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:23:38AM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:38:42PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > > Which wm does that? I know it isn't gnome-shell at least, as I've been
> > > > using it quite successfully without nm installed.
> > > Have you tried to use evolution without NM?
>
> Evolution seems to work just fine.
>
> > I didn't try but it only suggests network-manager. However some
> > applications do
> > behave weird if you just deinstalled n-m (pidgin for instance), because they
> > assume that you're not connected. After a reboot (maybe dbus restart is
> > enough)
> > they certainly connect again, though.
>
> I tested a good part of Gnome today without n-m and it appears there are no
> regressions at all. The only differences are:
>
> * it gets rid of n-m icon in the systray (duh)
[was incomplete]
* "network settings" deep in the control panel will say the networking on
this system is not compatible
Since n-m breaks actually working software (udev, ifupdown) for non-obscure
uses (connecting a phone via USB, bridged setups, non-basic VPNs, etc), a
desktop environment hard-depending on it is bad, and this really needs to be
a Recommends: relationship instead.
N-M compared to ifupdown:
* makes things easier for new users (good! especially in a default install)
* is said to make wifi easier (when it works...)
And downsides:
* breaks usb0 completely (keeps raising and lowering the interface in a
loop, no apparent way to tell it to keep its grubby hands away)
* breaks a load of complex setups
"Breaks unrelated software" on the system is a RC severity, and there's no
way one can say a windowing environment is related to core networking.
Thus, I'd say, #542095 needs to be upgraded -- and changing Depends: to
Recommends: is a non-intrusive fix. It will cause n-m to be installed
unless explicitely refused, just like you want it to be.
On the other hand, breaking such setups is not a RC bug in n-m. Like any
non-core package, there is no requirement for it to be universal:
* not working with complex setups is at most wishlist
* breaking USB networking by flipping the interface is normal
It's just gnome-meta hard-depending on it what's wrong.
--
I was born an ugly, dumb and work-loving child, then an evil midwife
replaced me in the crib.
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