On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:56:58AM +0100, Steven Chamberlain wrote: > On 10/09/14 07:40, Adam Borowski wrote: > > I think the "DebianDesktop requalification" table lacks an important > > row: the availability of the desktop environment in question on all > > Debian architectures. > > Not everyone has been persuaded on that principle yet :P But on > kfreebsd CDs we can at least override the default desktop if it's > something we don't have.
I just re-checked on powerpc in qemu, unlike my other setups it's not a real machine, but qemu is at least a reproducible setup without out-of-archive bits like all three of my armhf rigs. A d-i run takes two ages and three forevers, though... Powerpc is not a slow architecture, but is extremely slow in qemu. > Let's discuss your other point about 3D acceleration though: > > > llvmpipe is not a strict requirement, but I have yet to find a non-x86 > > opengl driver that gnome's compositor can work with. I tried: > > * an A10 laptop with non-free unpackaged Mali blob > > * Exynos4412 hardkernel, unpackaged opengl drivers > > * chroot on Raspberry Pi, non-free Broadcom stuff > > * qemu stuff has no accelerated opengl either > > What happens otherwise if trying to start GNOME3 (or others)? > * without 3D, with llvmpipe > * without both llvmpipe doesn't work at all -- not ported to -- on !x86 !armhf. > Does it fall back gracefully to a fallback/flashback mode, and does that > still work these days? All you get is a non-windowed screen that says: .---- Oh no! Something has gone wrong. A problem has occured and the system can't recover. Please log out and try again. Log Out. `---- You can't even press "Log Out", upon clicking the mouse cursor disappears and pressing any key on the keyboard turns the screen black, without no way out other than Alt-Ctrl-F1. According to what I read on the Interwebs, the fallback mode has been removed in Gnome 3.8, and flashback is just a plugin on gnome-shell. > In this mode would it still meet the 'accessibility' or other criteria > already on the Wiki page? 'Accessibility' is usually meant as being helpful to the blind, poor- sighted and those with hand-control disabilities: modes with big letters, contrasted screen elements, doubleclick and shift workarounds, etc. I'd say you'd need 'availability' or 'portability': gnome3 with a solid -1 (works only on 3 architectures at all -- 2 usably), no idea about kde, no problems for the rest. For example the Allwinner10-based laptop I had with me on DebConf 2013, I tested with xfce, but as A10 is terribly underpowered even for arm, I ended up with lxde with a bunch of programs from xfce. This worked great. > > Thus, it's safe to say anyone with a non-Nvidia non-Radeon non-Intel GPU > > will need llvmpipe. > > The Radeon users would need to be using non-free microcode too I guess? I'm well-armed but not well-x86ed, all my home boxes got nvidia, can't check. > > I'd say the default desktop environment should work on almost all setups. > > Yes, surely. -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory prices. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-boot-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140911153618.ga29...@angband.pl
