Hi Micah, On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 01:06:04PM +0200, micah anderson wrote: > I agree with you that we are all acting in good faith, but I have to > point out that your inference that these arguments are being made > because of suspicion of bad faith or some sort of conspiracy is saying > that those of us who are pointing out these problems are actually the > ones acting in bad faith. Suggesting that any disagreement with how > things happened is a suggestion of bad faith is saying that these > arguments are not being made in good faith. That is not only wrong, but > if I were assuming you were making this point in bad faith, then I would > point out that such an assertion is an attempt at shutting down any > disagreement, but I wont do that because I dont think you are trying to > do that. > > As you said, "we are *all* acting in good faith here", and that needs to > apply both to the herb team, but also those who were not part of the > herb team who are pointing out these issues. Until the herb team > realizes that, we will fail to talk to each other and instead talk over > each other.
To be clear, I do realize all three of you are acting in good faith here. I am not accusing you of anything, and even if you three are discussing about how to proceed in this thread, that would also be reasonable, just like it would be if the herb team were having similar discussions (so far we're not). I'm definitely not trying to shut down the discussion or disagreement, as I said later in the mail you're replying to. Similarly, I don't think you three are conspiring to deliberately hurt the reputation of me or anyone else on the herb team, beyond whatever disclosures and fixes are quite appropriately necessary to right a wrong, and I don't think you three are trying to drive anyone away from helping with DebConf. I was just giving feedback on the emotional reaction that I was drawing from the style of the wording in your(pl.) mails, with the hope to lower the temper of all of our emails, including my own. I do think highly of and respect all three of you, even Clint, surprising as this may seem after this disagreement. Any long-term damage to our ability to remain friends would be a shame, since we're all trying to do the right thing. For several reasons including that, I'm trying my best to stay reasonable and admit fault and inconsistency when I recognize it. > Since you have pointed out that a conspiracy theory is being woven by > people who feel like what happened here was wrong, and I am one of those > people, I feel compelled to explicitly state that I certainly do not > think that anyone involved in herb this year was deliberately conspiring > to fuck Clint. However, Clint was fucked and the response when this has > been pointed out has been unsatisfactory prevaracations, justifications > and failures to see clear inconsistant problems in the process, not to > mention rectify them. Again, I was mostly explaining my reaction to your mails. As for the inconsistencies, I'm glad you pointed out the problems with how we handled Joerg's responses, and as you can see I proposed a couple of solutions, one of which is entirely in my control to make happen. That was definitely inconsistent, though I still think Clint's was more consistent with the majority of other decisions this year than you realize. I'm trying to stick to the truth and not mislead or lie, so the word prevarication is a bit unfair in your previous paragraph. I have no reason to think anyone else is intentionally misleading or lying to you either. As for broader problems with the intentional design of the process, I hope I've expressed my openness to significant overhauls for next year. On that note, I don't think I'll personally be on the herb team next year, since it's obviously an emotionally taxing and error-prone role. Accordingly, I haven't decided whether or not I will attend this year's travel sponsorship BoF, but either way I trust the team to come up with something sane for next year, and I don't plan to derail it even if it's not what I would have done. Whether I join that discussion or not, I'm open to discussing this year's occurrences at other times - and/or discussing other topics too, hopefully. We don't want this to become 100% HerbConf All The Time! :-) See you on Sunday, - Jimmy Kaplowitz ji...@debian.org _______________________________________________ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
