On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Chun Sun <[email protected]> wrote:
> must be my misunderstanding... My interpretation is just the opposite: > ladders are not grown in the tree; they are part of the play-outs on the > leafs (default policy). > > Need experts for further explanations :) > I'm not sure myself and I'm certainly no expert, but I think this is still a black art and handled differently by different programs. Don > > > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Don Dailey <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I was curious about this myself. I am so heavily involved in computer >> chess that I'm having trouble keeping up with Go. But I am amazed at >> how strong the 19x19 go programs when I know that ladders are a big part of >> go and that they are not easily dealt with in playouts. >> >> So if I understand this correctly, you do significant analysis in the >> tree portion of MFGO but not in the playouts? Is that pretty typical of >> the best programs? >> >> Don >> >> >> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:41 AM, David Fotland >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> I’m not sure I understand exactly what you are asking, but I think >>> neither is true. **** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Many MCTS programs read ladders as part of move generation or bias. For >>> example ladder status may be part of the pattern data used for move bias in >>> the UCT tree. During play outs, some programs use ladder status to select >>> the move to play. For example a local response to the last move might be >>> “If the last move put a stone in atari, play in the liberty of the stone in >>> atari, provided it is not captured in a ladder”. Many Faces uses ladder >>> status in these ways.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> I don’t think a program should play out the ladder in the play out, >>> since half the moves are very bad.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> David**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Chun Sun >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:22 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* [Computer-go] ladder**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Hi... do MCTS programs usually put a specific ladder branch, or this >>> branch should be automatically generated given the right implementation? >>> **** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> This question has been hoovering in my head for a while and I wanted to >>> take the shortcut to ask here :)**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Thanks,**** >>> >>> Chun**** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Computer-go mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >
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