On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Aja Huang <[email protected]> wrote:
> It’s easy to detect “secure” territory by collecting the information of > ownership from the playouts. > I have always called this the "ownership map" for lack of a better term. I have heard people refer to is as a "futures map." > If Black owns a region of points in 95% of the playouts, for example, we > can “safely” say this region is Black’s territory (unless the playouts are > seriously biased, which is independent to this problem). Go is a game of > territory and the objective of every move is to gain more territory. > Computers have a different objective. Computer try to win the game, humans trying to win territory. > To cure this problem, besides winning rate we might have to use the > information of not only “average score” but also “average score of certain > points”. > I fear the program would find ways to trade some territory in for other. It does seem like there should be some way to use this information to help. Don > > Aja > > > *From:* Stefan Kaitschick <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Monday, January 09, 2012 4:38 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Computer-go] replacing dynamic komi with a scoring > function > > By the way, are we sure it is underestimation of the edges and corners ? > Rather than overestimation of the centre ? > >> >> I know those are equivalent for play itself, but the answer suggests >> different tries for solution. In the first case, we want to make the bot >> more aware that he will keep its edge territory. In the second, we want >> to make it understand that inways made be made in its beautiful centre. >> >> Jonas >> >> > > I think they overestimate both the corners and the center, but they > overestimate the corners less. :-) > They will often force from the outside, even when an invasion is > relatively simple and the outside forcing stones aren't worth much. I can > only call that overestimating corner safety. > But at the same time, the center is given even greater priority, because > the playouts so often come back with a kill of would be invaders. > Crazy Stone seems to be ahead of the other bots in this. > My guess is that it's using simulation balancing in the playouts to > purposely degrade attacking moves. > Ajas' idea of biasing towards secure territory is a typical strong players > idea. But what does "secure" mean? > Maybe the idea Ingo brought up, to naively give corner and edge territory > a higher weight in the early stages of the game, is more promising. It > feels like a crutch, but when you have broken leg, a crutch is great. > > Stefan > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >
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