E6, H3 lsoes, but Manyfaces doesn’t see it until several moves later.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:computer-go-
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Erik van der Werf
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 3:02 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
> 
> Nicks suggestion might work also, I'm not sure, but I had a lot more
> difficulties with it (against Steenvreter). With black 31 at e6 it all
> seems rather straightforward. I guess some programs may have
> difficulties seeing the corner is dead.
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:54 PM, David Fotland <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > ManyFaces agrees with Nick that connecting on the right is better than
31
> > (with about 48% win rate).  It doesn’t like moving at 34, as Erik
> suggests.
> > After 34 (E6), it thinks white can win (55%) at H3, but this is too
> > optimistic.
> >
> > David
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:computer-go-
> >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Erik van der Werf
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:24 PM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 9:01 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > "Aja" <[email protected]>
> >> >> ManyFaces (White) still wins even if it loses the semeai but
captures
> >> >> the J4 group of 3 stones. And it's not possible for Black to save
the
> >> >> J4 group and win the semeai at the same time.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, that is exactly what the experts in the forum found.
> >> >
> >> > The question: Do the other bots see this as well,
> >> > and how early in the game do they see this outcome?
> >>
> >> Sure, its easy for strong bots :-)
> >>
> >> There are several ways to win in this position; no need to win the
> >> semeai. Even the J4 block can be traded for something like 2 points
> >> elsewhere (e.g., g4 & a6).
> >>
> >> To win Black should have played 31 at 34. I think Nick's suggestion
> >> (between 32 and 35) is bad because the White group in the upper right
> >> corner is already dead.
> >>
> >> Erik
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
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