On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 7:28 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>wrote:
> Hello Don, > several very good points by you! > > > > Does anyone have data based on several thousands games > > that attempts to measure the effect of dynamic komi? > > I would like to see results that are statistically meaningful. > > I had eight handplayed (4 + 4) games on 19x19 with very > high handicap, where the version with dynamic komi (rule 42) > gained a 3-1 score and the version with static komi > performed 0-4 versus the same opponent. This is evidence > in the 95% region that the version with dynamic komi is > not weaker than the static version. > Were these games against humans or other computer players? If the games were against a human player, were they blind? Did the player know he was participating in an experiment? Did he know what results you hoped to see? And were the games alternated so that the result was not skewed too much by his experience with the program? Don > > We need to see a few thousand games played > > A few hundreds or even a few dozens may be sufficient when > the outcome is very clear. > > > against a fixed opponent WITH dynamic komi, and > > then the same program without dyanmic komi playing > > against the same opponent with the same number > > of games. The number of games must be decided before > > the test is run, or the error margin calculation is > > meaningless. > > I am willing to provide the statistical part, when programmers > run the experiments. > > > > As far as I can tell, nobody has yet to produce anything more > > than anecdotal evidence that this works. > > I have. See the 4 + 4 games mentioned above, > played with my "rule 42". > > > Having a person manually adjusting this after every game is > > completely non-sceientific, unless they are doing it in a fixed > > way with no decision making on their part > > Right. > > > and they are playing thousands of games (or at least > > enough to get statistically significant results.) > > Right, especially also the bracket part of your sentence. > > > I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I cannot > > understand why no one has produced a statistically meaningful > > result on this subject - > > I would have. Unfortunately I am not a programmer, and am also > not fit in modifying a program code to include dynamic komi. > > But, to repeat it, I am willing to do statistical home > work. > > > I am genuinely interested in this since I never was able to > > make it work when I spent about one intense week on it. > > (I did not do this with handicap games, but with normal games.) > > Your sentence in brackets is crucial. I only proposed to use > dynamic komi in games with high handicap. Especially I had in > mind the situation where the stronger side (giving high handicap) > is MC-based. > > Perhaps, 9x9 instead of 19x19 makes it easier for some programmer > to start test series with dynamic komi. > > Ingo. > > -- > Sicherer, schneller und einfacher. Die aktuellen Internet-Browser - > jetzt kostenlos herunterladen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ >
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