I wouldn't say I experienced 'problems' with the boomkicker, I just am not enamored with the installation on the J-80. Ours has as its adjustment mechanism a two legged vang, with one tail going to each side of the 'cabin' on the boat. I don't think it has enough leverage to give adequate adjustment - read that it is a bitch to get the boom down when you want it down. And.... the attachment points on the boom and mast are rather skimpy aluminum 'rails' with little pins - and they squeek - the whole thing just seems to be a bit chintzy.
My Garhauer, in contrast, has a 6 part (18:1) vang (built in) for adjustment, and a good sized spring inside the tube which holds the boom up quite adequately. When I sent the boom and mast profiles to Garhauer, I got an item which fits perfectly and is strong - it has been about 15 years and I've had no problems. I have removed the topping lift. I'm sure there are others who have had good experiences with boomkickers, I just like my Garhauer better - and it is similar in price. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Brass via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Rick Brass Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Rigid vang A Boomkicker from Defender is something like $228 or $275, depending on whether you get the 45" or 53" length. One if or boats up to 30' and the other is for 30' to 34' or some such. It comes with the brackets you mount on mast and boom to attach the ends. It only lifts the boom so you still need a soft vang - one strong enough to overcome the force generated by the boomkicker in addition to the force needed to tension the sail. From Garhauer, the 12:1 rigid vang I have on my 25 is $275. The 18:1 on my 38 is $435. And the RV6 aluminum vang is priced in between those. Brackets for mast and boom custom made for your boat are included. You already have a soft vang. The old one on my 38 was a 4:1 that I have repurposed for use as a preventer. The higher mechanical advantage of the 12:1 or 18:1 has a benefit when flattening the leach of the sail upwind in high winds. And of course the vang controls the height of the boom, so the mainsheet and traveler can be used to change the angle of attack of the sail without changing the sail shape. The first advantage of either the rigid vang or boomkicker is to support the boom and eliminate the topping lift. Which means eliminating the hang-ups, adjustments and chafe of a topping lift. The second advantage is that easing the vang in heavy air or downwind raises the boom and opens the leach of the sail to spill wind, or to give you a fuller sail shape when running. You can accomplish the same thing by easing the soft vang and raising the topping lift. But that isn't always convenient (or possible) when reaching or running unless you have rigged the topping lift to be adjusted from the cockpit. I have a slight prejudice against the boomkicker because I have seen two instances when the upper end of the fiberglass rod became detached from the bracket on the boom. That may have been an incorrect installation, or pilot error. One skipper told me they let the boom get too high during a gybe and the rod just came out of the bracket - but I suspect there may have been more to the story. Anyway, with the boomkicker not connected, the boom and mainsail comes down into the cockpit when you lower the sail which is neither convenient nor particularly safe. I think Gary reported in an earlier post that he has experienced problems with a boomkicker on a J boat on which he races. Perhaps he will refresh our memories? Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of allen via CnC-List Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 11:44 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: allen <allenmi...@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rigid vang I already have a multi part soft vang. What's the cost and performance benefits of going to a boom kicker vs a solid vang? Allen Miles Septima C&C 30-2 Hampton, VA From: Rick Brass via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 9:22 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Rick Brass Subject: Re: Stus-List Rigid vang If you are unable to get proper luff tension when raising the main, and you suspect the cause may be the tension on the leach of the sail, then the problem is most likely that you have not loosened the mainsheet (or vang if you have one) sufficiently before raising the sail. The weight of the boom shouldn't be a problem. As Dennis pointed out, the topping lift causes a lot of wear on the leach of the main. And as Lee pointed out, it's major effect when sailing is to negate any adjustments you do make to the mainsheet and vang, and to screw up tacks in light air. On my 25 (where the end of the boom is only about 2 feet ahead of the backstay) the topping lift spent probably a third of its life wrapped around the backstay and giving me fits. I was really glad to get rid of the verdamte thing. Josh said the topping lift might be useful to let the main twist off when slightly overcanvassed. You can accomplish the same thing by slightly loosening the mainsheet or the vang (if you have one); the pressure of the wind will increase the twist. Conversely, if you want to flatten the leach while not hard on the wind, tightening the mainsheet will pull in on the boom while it pulls down on the leach - which may not be optimal. The vang will control the leach tension independent of boom position, so you can use sheet and traveler to adjust the position of the boom. When reefing, releasing the rigid vang will raise the end of the boom ( and you won't need to stand on the cabin top or side of the cockpit to do the adjustment). And when you are done setting the reef, a pull on the vang will tighten up the leach and adjust the twist of the sail. I have Garhauer rigid vangs on both my boats, and no topping lifts. Main halyard gets attached to the end of the boom and snugged against the vang when the sail is down to stop halyard slap and to keep the boom from rocking side to side. I am a very happy camper. Rick Brass Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 10:44 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Dr. Mark Bodnar <drbod...@accesswave.ca> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rigid vang Realized that I made an error - I was not referring to the leach, I actually meant the luff (sorry - my nautical terms are not. Sail is hard to hoist fully to get the luff tight. Maybe if I raised the boom with the topping lift it would be easier to fully hoist -- which would then mean I would need to go back and loosen the topping lift every time. I'll have to play with it a bit. Same I guess when I reef - raising the boom with the topping lift would make it easier to snug down the reef point. The rigid vang would save the extra step. Thanks for all the info. I'm tempted to go with the Garhauer rigid vang, get rid of my topping lift completely - but I'll need to decide if that makes it to the top of my list or not. Mark There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George SantayanaOn 2015-09-29 7:38 PM, Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List wrote: I have a Garhauer ridgid vang as well. Love it to death. I eliminated my topping lift all together with it. When I'm at the dock, I take the main halyard off and attach it to where the topping lift used to be to snug up. Keeps halyard from slapping the mast and keeps the rigid vang from making spring noises as the boat bounces a bit. If you keep your topping lift, you need the ability to slack it off quite a bit so your mainsheet can pull down as much as the sail will allow... -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C&C 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 5:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Dr. Mark Bodnar Subject: Stus-List Rigid vang Thinking about projects for the boat. I definitely need a new main sheet system - and expect I'll go with Marek's Garhauer suggestion. But that then raises the idea of a rigid boom vang - If I'm going to buy one in the near future it's better to combine shipping. I'm not racing, and rarely use the existing vang (except for downwind to hold down the boom). Currently boat is set up with a topping lift (which need to be replaced due to wear) I never adjust my topping lift - I have it set so it's slack when the sail is fully hoisted, and then when the sail is dropped it comes taut a few inches lower (maybe that's why I have a hard time getting the leach tight - easier if if I tightened up the topping lift before hoisting?). Any thoughts? I've never used a rigid vang. People happy with them? Given I don't adjust the topping lift I'm not seeing a big time savings - but maybe I should be adjusting it more? Mark There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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