Russ, you can stop by the Harbour Chandler any time Tuesday to Saturday and offer me a sail, and I’ll bring beer. If the sale doesn’t go through, I won’t be able to afford to bring beer.
Re the LF38: I’ve repaired and sailed on a lot of boats and, all things taken into consideration, she is one of the best all-round sailing machines I’ve been on with essentially no bad habits. Weather helm was never a problem and rounding up was virtually unknown. The ride was always comfortable, especially without the flat area ahead of the keel found on so many boats that can cause pounding. Engine and steering mechanism access is a bit restricted, but not impossible. A great affordable vessel that looks good and delivers decent performance and comfort. I had mine for 18 years and never had a moment of fear, regret, or desire for another boat. A tribute to C&C. Re weather helm and other mysteries of life: Keep tweaking until it works. If it doesn’t, try twerking. Rich Knowles Nanaimo, BC INDIGO LF38 Almost sold in Halifax, NS. On May 3, 2015, at 20:24, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Hi Josh, This reply is really for Mr. Noragon. You and everybody else agree on the concept that Sail CE vs. Yacht CLR is going to influence weather helm. Any objection to moving the discussion on ways to arrive and influence that relationship to a new thread? (it might become huge :) In the interest of stepping a mast on a Landfill 38* I recommend the following simple steps: mast placement, shroud static tune, shroud dynamic tune. Mast placement: Since we don't have history, I would start with the mast centred in step and adjust forestay length* to arrive at desired rake. If you come against the aft partners (deck elevation) then bang the mast base forward (similar if aft adjustment is necessary). Static Shroud Tune:* Centre mast athwartship using this technique, second paragraph At The Dock http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/masttuning/tuning.htm <http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/masttuning/tuning.htm> Next, I tighten the lower shrouds alternately and bang on 'em occasionally until the low "thud" becomes a low "bing". I keep the tighten sequence until they all have the same nice "bing". (low G for my wire, if I remember correctly) Similiar for the upper shrouds. (but a higher note when finished) Block the mast at the partners and have a beer. You have just tuned a rig, by ear. Dynamic Shroud Tune. The sailing adjustments finish rig tuning and are as important as above. I usually do a couple of dynamic tunes simply because of weather opportunities aren't always there the first sail out. For this I do a small leeward adjustment, tack, adjust leeward, tack, etc. instead of luffing as recommended by the above link. * - if you are racing and need repeatable pre-race rig settings then a Loos gauge is a handy kit for Static Shroud Tune. - not once was forestay tension mentioned :) - the other thing I couldn't resist was the landfill comment. this is an unkind and unwarranted remark oft made in the racing community, jealous, I think, they don't appreciate comfort. I would love to upgrade to a Landfall 38 and cruise the Caribbean for bit. Oops, gotta go. Looks like a call from Rich, inviting me over for a beer (in case the sale falls through). Hah ha. Cheers, Russ Sweet 35 mk-1 Nanaimo At 05:59 PM 03/05/2015, you wrote: > Right, we have all agreed (conceeded in my case) that more rake usually > equals more weather helm. However, while discussing rake we are only taking > into consideration the movement of the mast head. The act of moving the head > back actually does two things. One, it tilts or rotates the sail on > approximately on it's tack. Two, it pulls the entire sail aft since the mast > is moving aft. > > Which action is changing the weather helm or are they both responsible? > > The original question by Mr. Frank Noragon was, "What would happen if he > moved the blocks at the mast step so as the move the foot forward?" > > I answered that it would increase the rake and then incorrectly stated that > increased rake would decrease weather helm. Fellow listers quickly corrected > my error...repeatedly. After being corrected for the third or forth time I > decided to reeducate myself. During this review it occured to me that all I > was previously considering was the rake. Rich's comments made me consider > the placement of the sail in relation to the boat. As such I possed the > question to Rich that moving the foot forward does increase rake but actually > moves the bulk of the sail forward. What is the net effect? > > There it is, fire at will. > > Josh > > Rich, > > > > Less rake = less weather helm. If you go far enough, you end up with lee > helm, which can be dangerous. I doubt you have enough adjustment to get that > far though. > > > > Jake > > > > Jake Brodersen > > Midnight Mistress > > C&C 35 Mk-III > > Hampton VA > > > > > > > > From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich via CnC-List > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2015 1:36 PM > To: Josh Muckley; cnc-list Cnc-List > Subject: Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step > > > > Hi All. Ive been having an offline conversation with Josh, see below. > > > > Perhaps someone else might like to answer Joshs questions as I cant > > > > > Rich Knowles > > Nanaimo, BC > INDIGO LF38 > Almost sold in Halifax, NS. > > > > > > On May 2, 2015, at 17:41, Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com > <mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Doesn't the luff moves forward when you move the foot forward? The original > poster was asking about placement of wood blocks. He had all 4 blocks > forward of the mast and the mask back all the way aft. I assumed that in > moving the blocks to move the mast forward that this would move the foot > forward as well. No mention of changing headstay length so I assumed it to > be the fixed point in all of this. Based on these assumptions the trailing > edge of the mast and the luff edge of the sail would also move forward but > the mast as a whole would have more rake. Right? > > Josh > > On May 2, 2015 6:53 PM, "Rich Knowles" <r...@sailpower.ca > <mailto:r...@sailpower.ca>> wrote: > > I'm confused. Since the luff is attached to the trailing edge of the mast, if > the mast rake increases the luff must move along with it. Perhaps someone > else can make more sense if this than I can for you. I'm at work but will > post our conversation to the masses when I get home. > > RK > > > On May 2, 2015, at 15:16, Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com > <mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > What you said was that moving the mast aft moves the center of effort aft. > Since the original question was about placement of the mast foot being all > the way aft and the consequences of moving it forward I assumed you were > referring to the foot. I had originally stated that moving the foot forward > would increase rake and then mis-stated that increased rake would reduce > weather helm. I was quickly corrected and I conceeded that more rake equals > more weather helm. > > So what is the combined effect of moving the luff edge forward but increasing > rake? The two actions have opposite effects correct? > > Josh > > On May 2, 2015 2:28 AM, "Rich Knowles" <r...@sailpower.ca > <mailto:r...@sailpower.ca>> wrote: > > Moving the mast aft moves the centre of sail effort aft and increases weather > helm. Simple geometry. > > > > Rich Knowles > > Nanaimo, BC > INDIGO LF38 > Almost sold in Halifax, NS. > > > > > > On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:15, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > > > > Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C&C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > On Apr 30, 2015 2:13 PM, "N7FN--- via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > > > Hi, > > I need to know, from you 38LF owners, where in the mast step your mast is > positioned. > > Right now my mast is all the way aft in the step but I can see that the mast > was positioned in the step farther forward at one time. > > The only reason that it is all the way aft is because that is where the > workers in the yard put it. > > Any ideas about how the boat would sail if the mast was positioned all the > way forward as opposed to all the way aft? I have seen adjustments for > moving the mast in it's step on some sports boats. > > Frank Noragon > C&C 38LF, s/n 001 > Rose City Yacht Club > Portland, Oregon > > _______________________________________________ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom > of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > <http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com> > > _______________________________________________ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom > of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > <http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom > of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > <http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com> > > > _______________________________________________ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom > of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > <http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com>_______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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