Very good summary of things I saw too when racing against different style boats 
in the same fleet. 

Instead of the fleet placings, we found we could measure our performance best 
by comparing us against similar C&Cs. I lost interest in racing when similar 
boats stopped competing and we had to race against a Viper 640, a Pearson 
Triton 28 and a J-24 and a J-28 all in the same fleet. Apples and oranges. I 
see why one design is so popular and so competitive. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 12:42:12 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet 

> consensus opinion on how to adjust PHRF ratings to allow spin 
> and JAM boats to compete in a single (small) fleet 

Typical it works poorly. On moderately heavy days were most boats can 
get up towards hull speed and sail deep downwind the JAM boats will be 
about as fast as the spin boats but will carry a +12 to +23 advantage. 

On very light days if the scoring is time-on-time while everyone is gently 
drifting downwind the boats with a +24 will be accumulating too much 
adjusted time. 

In moderate wind conditions the spin boats will sail to their ratings, but 
so will the JAM boats. Might be fair for those days. 

>The race on Saturday is a longish (10-12NM) pursuit race that starts and 
> finishes in the harbor and has north, south, east, and west legs. 

For PHRF Lake Ontario the ratings are based on windward - leeward courses 
with 1 mile legs in about 4 - 18 kts of wind. The ratings were never designed 
for long distance races. 

I raced last summer in a mixed FS - NFS fleet. Well, hard to call it racing and 
I am not sure about the summer part either. Fleet spread was 91, and went 
from a Kirby 30 and J/80 to a Sprinta Sport. I managed to see first hand all 
the ways mixed fleets and wide PHRF spreads do not work. 

At least it does reduce the pile ups at the marks you get in a OD fleet. 


Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
Brass via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 9:17 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet 

OK. I know this has been discussed before. But I just spent almost two hours 
in the mail archives rereading a whole bunch of previous messages, trying to 
come up with a consensus opinion on how to adjust PHRF ratings to allow spin 
and JAM boats to compete in a single (small) fleet. 

What I firmly believe I have discovered is that, sort of like economists and 
politicians, if you laid all the opinions end to end they would never reach 
a conclusion. 

I know that a number of PHRF organizations give a boat both a Spin and a 
non-spin rating. And I understand that local some local organizations with 
small fleets running in a single event will adjust the ratings of boats in 
non-spin to promote more even competition. From what I can see, the credit 
for running non-spin seems to be in the range of 10-18 seconds, or 10-15% of 
the boat's PHRF. 

What I'm trying to do is plan for a "C&C Cup" to be run as part of a local 
charity regatta called Pirates on the Pungo, in Belhaven, NC on the weekend 
of May 15-17. More on that later. 

The race on Saturday is a longish (10-12NM) pursuit race that starts and 
finishes in the harbor and has north, south, east, and west legs. I know of 
about 15 C&Cs within a day's travel of Belhaven, so I'm guessing the fleet 
would include 8-10 boats, with some cruisers and 1 or 2 real racers. To 
promote camaraderie and competition, and also so I don't have to pony up too 
much for the prizes (the winner will get a half hull of his own boat made by 
Andrew Burton), we would have a single fleet. 

So help me here: 

How does your local PHRF or sailing club adjust the ratings between Spin and 
JAM to allow both types of boats in a single fleet? And how equitable are 
the results based on your experience? 

Rick Brass 
Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 
la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 
Washington, NC 




_______________________________________________ 

Email address: 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at: 
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 


_______________________________________________

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Reply via email to