Very good summary of things I saw too when racing against different style boats in the same fleet.
Instead of the fleet placings, we found we could measure our performance best by comparing us against similar C&Cs. I lost interest in racing when similar boats stopped competing and we had to race against a Viper 640, a Pearson Triton 28 and a J-24 and a J-28 all in the same fleet. Apples and oranges. I see why one design is so popular and so competitive. Chuck Resolute 1990 C&C 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 12:42:12 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet > consensus opinion on how to adjust PHRF ratings to allow spin > and JAM boats to compete in a single (small) fleet Typical it works poorly. On moderately heavy days were most boats can get up towards hull speed and sail deep downwind the JAM boats will be about as fast as the spin boats but will carry a +12 to +23 advantage. On very light days if the scoring is time-on-time while everyone is gently drifting downwind the boats with a +24 will be accumulating too much adjusted time. In moderate wind conditions the spin boats will sail to their ratings, but so will the JAM boats. Might be fair for those days. >The race on Saturday is a longish (10-12NM) pursuit race that starts and > finishes in the harbor and has north, south, east, and west legs. For PHRF Lake Ontario the ratings are based on windward - leeward courses with 1 mile legs in about 4 - 18 kts of wind. The ratings were never designed for long distance races. I raced last summer in a mixed FS - NFS fleet. Well, hard to call it racing and I am not sure about the summer part either. Fleet spread was 91, and went from a Kirby 30 and J/80 to a Sprinta Sport. I managed to see first hand all the ways mixed fleets and wide PHRF spreads do not work. At least it does reduce the pile ups at the marks you get in a OD fleet. Michael Brown Windburn C&C 30-1 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass via CnC-List Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 9:17 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet OK. I know this has been discussed before. But I just spent almost two hours in the mail archives rereading a whole bunch of previous messages, trying to come up with a consensus opinion on how to adjust PHRF ratings to allow spin and JAM boats to compete in a single (small) fleet. What I firmly believe I have discovered is that, sort of like economists and politicians, if you laid all the opinions end to end they would never reach a conclusion. I know that a number of PHRF organizations give a boat both a Spin and a non-spin rating. And I understand that local some local organizations with small fleets running in a single event will adjust the ratings of boats in non-spin to promote more even competition. From what I can see, the credit for running non-spin seems to be in the range of 10-18 seconds, or 10-15% of the boat's PHRF. What I'm trying to do is plan for a "C&C Cup" to be run as part of a local charity regatta called Pirates on the Pungo, in Belhaven, NC on the weekend of May 15-17. More on that later. The race on Saturday is a longish (10-12NM) pursuit race that starts and finishes in the harbor and has north, south, east, and west legs. I know of about 15 C&Cs within a day's travel of Belhaven, so I'm guessing the fleet would include 8-10 boats, with some cruisers and 1 or 2 real racers. To promote camaraderie and competition, and also so I don't have to pony up too much for the prizes (the winner will get a half hull of his own boat made by Andrew Burton), we would have a single fleet. So help me here: How does your local PHRF or sailing club adjust the ratings between Spin and JAM to allow both types of boats in a single fleet? And how equitable are the results based on your experience? Rick Brass Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 Washington, NC _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
