I also recently ordered the Garhauer lead cars this past fall. Haven't yet installed but looking forward to incorporating into headsail trimming for the spring season.
Steve C&C 34+ Deja Vu Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 20, 2014, at 9:48 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: > > Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to > cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Adjustable genoa car system for C&C 38 (Monty Schumpert) > 2. Re: Adjustable genoa car - now leak free t tracks (sort of > long) (Rick Brass) > 3. Re: Adjustable genoa car system for C&C 38 > (sam.c.sal...@gmail.com) > 4. Re: was storing handheld gps ..radios etc. now off topic > (Jim Watts) > 5. Re: Adjustable genoa car - now leak free t tracks (sortof > long) (dwight) > 6. Re: was storing handheld gps ..radios etc. now off topic > (Rich Knowles) > 7. Re: Adjustable genoa car system for C&C 38 (David Donnelly) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:31:45 -0500 > From: Monty Schumpert <jmschump...@verizon.net> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable genoa car system for C&C 38 > Message-ID: <81c5d8b0-545f-4223-838c-a6a3fb91c...@verizon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ditto, also, for the Garhauer adjustable cars. I ordered them at the boat > show this fall so don't have a lot of experience yet. They fit the tracks > perfectly and operate very smoothly. Looking forward to using them this > coming season. > > Monty > Scandia > 1991 C&C 34+ > Annapolis, MD > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jan 20, 2014, at 5:54 PM, "Steve Sharkey" <stevebshar...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I added a Garhauer system to my 1983 C&C 37 last year and I love it. Just >> tell them what boat you have and they?ll make sure it fits the right track. >> >> Steve >> C&C 37 1983 >> Impromptu >> >> From: Martin "Mac" McKenzie >> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 1:22 PM >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable genoa car system for C&C 38 >> >> I have the Garhauer system on my boat. It fit the original 1 1/4" track. >> They work great. >> >> Mac >> Worthy Pearl C&C 37 1983 >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20140120/485d5725/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 19:31:27 -0500 > From: "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> > To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable genoa car - now leak free t tracks > (sort of long) > Message-ID: <015901cf1640$1fd05a20$5f710e60$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dwight; > > > > The tracks C&C installed on my boat at the factory are Merriman ?H? tracks. > In cross section, they look sort of like an I beam with a very short web, > or, if laid on the edge, they look like an ?H?. I suppose the wide base of > the installation helps maintain the seal because the track is much less > susceptible to ?wiggling? under side loads than a modern ?T? track. > > > > That?s supposition on my part, but I know the tracks installed at the > factory sometime between January and April of 1976 have never leaked. They > are bedded in Butyl, and the 5/16ths screws holding the track are tightly > fit into the holes in the deck ? which are also filled with compressed > butyl. Under the deck, and above the headliner, is an aluminum backing plate > about 2? wide, and the screws are double nutted so they retain torque. The > spacing of the holes in the H track is also less than the standard spacing > of T track (I once considered replacing the tracks and found about the > spacing in the process), and I think the closer spacing of the fasteners > also helps maintain the seal. > > > > On the 3 or 4 38s I?ve been aboard, the headliner has a channel that drops > down below the area of the fasteners for the tracks ? sort of like the > ?flanged? area at the edge of the liner near the toe rail fasteners. The > channel has a removable cover plate held up by self taping screws for access > to the fasteners. The channel and the cover would make it pretty apparent > where the leak was, if you should have one. > > > > Now my 25 mk1 did not have a genoa track or a simple means of adjusting the > sheet leads. I guess the idea was to snap shackle blocks to the slotted toe > rail. The boat came with 3 or 4 sets of snatch blocks with snap shackles > when I bought her. When I installed the Garhauer genoa cars on her, I had to > install a new T track. It is actually a Harken T track purchases locally, > because shipping two 8 foot pieces of Garhauer track from California to > Pennsylvania was more than all the herdware combined. > > > > I positioned the track where I wanted it on the deck, taped it down, and > marked where all the holes needed to be. I then set the track aside and, > using a ?? diameter hole saw, cut through the deck and into the core without > cutting the headliner. Pulled out the balsa plugs and cleaned out the holes > and removed core between deck and liner around each hole. The filled each > hole with thickened West epoxy. Can?t recall exactly which numbers, but I do > recall it was slow cure hardener and high load filler. After the epoxy was > cured, I remarked the position for each hole and drilled through for the ?? > screws I was using, making sure to chamfer the deck at the top of each hole > to get a good seal later. > > > > I also made backing plates to go inside the liner. Three plates for each > side (below the deck in the lazarette, in the dish fiddle and food locker > opposite, and in the fiddle behind the settees) because the bulkheads were > solid and there was no allowance for a backing plate to be installed through > them. > > > > When I installed the tracks, I dry fit the tracks and put blue tape along > the deck on each side so I could easily remove any sealant that squished > out. Then I coated the bottom of the T with 4200, inserted all the screws > and coated the threads with 4200 (to fill the holes full) and then mounted > the track onto the deck with the screws poking down inside. Then install the > backing plates over the screws and secure with Ny-Lok nuts. Next was to have > someone on deck to keep each screw from turning while I seated the Ny-Lok > nuts from below until sealant squished out from under the track. Next day > may helper came back and torque the nuts while making sure the screws did > not turn and break the seal inside each hole. Finally, take an Exacto knife > and cut the sealant along the edge of the track and pull up the excess > sealant along with the blue tape. > > > > Did all that in 1996, and haven?t had a leak or soft spot in the deck yet. > Knock wood. > > > > Now I know that for most everyone on the list, and probably for you as well, > just saying that if you over drill, fill, and redrill the holes you should > get a good seal would have been adequate. But describing the whole process > is probably beneficial for some of the less experienced listers. > > > > Besides, now you can understand my comment in an earlier post that replacing > the existing tracks is a true PITA. > > > > > > Rick Brass > > Washington, NC > > > > > > > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 2:43 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable genoa car system for C&C 38 > > > > So do most people get away with installing these tracks and never have > leaks. With all the associated holes through the deck it would be very > fortunate to never experience leaking and with the liners in C&C boats that > leaking can be well hidden. > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20140120/8634a376/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:54:35 -0700 > From: sam.c.sal...@gmail.com > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable genoa car system for C&C 38 > Message-ID: <20140121015435.5632143.62694.12...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20140120/437391cc/attachment-0001.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:36:55 -0800 > From: Jim Watts <paradigmat...@gmail.com> > To: 1 CnC List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List was storing handheld gps ..radios etc. now off > topic > Message-ID: > <CA+jZ0FcS9y2V9B6knVuF35bEsSfhR7943RMHRO2daTun=hh...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > We call them "drunks" out here. Throw in a loonie, throw up in the hat, > wander away... > > Jim Watts > Paradigm Shift > C&C 35 Mk III > Victoria, BC > > >> On 20 January 2014 12:56, Rich Knowles <r...@sailpower.ca> wrote: >> >> Or they could join the SPCA; the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to >> Audiences. That's the group that pays street musicians not to play. >> >> Rich >> >> On Jan 20, 2014, at 15:46, "Ronald B. Frerker" <rbfrer...@yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >> Need to form a new group, DAMM (drunks against mad mothers). >> Ron >> STL >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rich Knowles <r...@sailpower.ca> >> *To:* "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:03 AM >> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List storing handheld gps ..radios etc. >> >> No fun any more. Thanks, MADD:) >> >> Rich >> >> On Jan 18, 2014, at 3:31, Jim Watts <paradigmat...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> That sounds like the last call at the Manhattan Ballroom, 15 miles out of >> Saskatoon. That's where I saw Burton Cummings and the Guess Who in their >> early days. >> All those people, hurling in the bushes, cars in the ditch all the way >> back to the highway. Man, I miss that. : ) >> >> Jim Watts >> Paradigm Shift >> C&C 35 Mk III >> Victoria, BC >> >> >> On 17 January 2014 18:40, Rich Knowles <r...@sailpower.ca> wrote: >> >> Gives new meaning to "One for the ditch!" >> >> Rich >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20140120/96c7eb92/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 22:37:55 -0400 > From: "dwight" <dwight...@gmail.com> > To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable genoa car - now leak free t tracks > (sortof long) > Message-ID: <98931139722E42F192B2E6A6E5319185@your4dacd0ea75> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Yes Rick it is truly a PITA, I have done it on 3 different boats already so > I know. None of those boats had factory installed tracks and all but the 24 > had tracks installed by previous owners, and in those cases I had to redo > the job. Point is a lot of C&C yachts came from the plant without factory > installed genoa tracks so different than what you describe for your 38 and > many of us therefore have boats which have tracks that were installed by > previous owners?It would be nice if everyone had done it the way you > describe for your 25 but I can tell you from my personal experience that is > not the case. It is a big job and a PITA as you say, and on my 27 and my 35 > it was not that easy to access nits hidden up under the headliner and > because of that some of the nuts on those boats were no where close to > tight, and washers were used as backing plates but not on all nuts for some > reason, difficult access I guess. > > > > _____ > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick > Brass > Sent: January 20, 2014 8:31 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable genoa car - now leak free t tracks (sortof > long) > > > > Dwight; > > > > The tracks C&C installed on my boat at the factory are Merriman ?H? tracks. > In cross section, they look sort of like an I beam with a very short web, > or, if laid on the edge, they look like an ?H?. I suppose the wide base of > the installation helps maintain the seal because the track is much less > susceptible to ?wiggling? under side loads than a modern ?T? track. > > > > That?s supposition on my part, but I know the tracks installed at the > factory sometime between January and April of 1976 have never leaked. They > are bedded in Butyl, and the 5/16ths screws holding the track are tightly > fit into the holes in the deck ? which are also filled with compressed > butyl. Under the deck, and above the headliner, is an aluminum backing plate > about 2? wide, and the screws are double nutted so they retain torque. The > spacing of the holes in the H track is also less than the standard spacing > of T track (I once considered replacing the tracks and found about the > spacing in the process), and I think the closer spacing of the fasteners > also helps maintain the seal. > > > > On the 3 or 4 38s I?ve been aboard, the headliner has a channel that drops > down below the area of the fasteners for the tracks ? sort of like the > ?flanged? area at the edge of the liner near the toe rail fasteners. The > channel has a removable cover plate held up by self taping screws for access > to the fasteners. The channel and the cover would make it pretty apparent > where the leak was, if you should have one. > > > > Now my 25 mk1 did not have a genoa track or a simple means of adjusting the > sheet leads. I guess the idea was to snap shackle blocks to the slotted toe > rail. The boat came with 3 or 4 sets of snatch blocks with snap shackles > when I bought her. When I installed the Garhauer genoa cars on her, I had to > install a new T track. It is actually a Harken T track purchases locally, > because shipping two 8 foot pieces of Garhauer track from California to > Pennsylvania was more than all the herdware combined. > > > > I positioned the track where I wanted it on the deck, taped it down, and > marked where all the holes needed to be. I then set the track aside and, > using a ?? diameter hole saw, cut through the deck and into the core without > cutting the headliner. Pulled out the balsa plugs and cleaned out the holes > and removed core between deck and liner around each hole. The filled each > hole with thickened West epoxy. Can?t recall exactly which numbers, but I do > recall it was slow cure hardener and high load filler. After the epoxy was > cured, I remarked the position for each hole and drilled through for the ?? > screws I was using, making sure to chamfer the deck at the top of each hole > to get a good seal later. > > > > I also made backing plates to go inside the liner. Three plates for each > side (below the deck in the lazarette, in the dish fiddle and food locker > opposite, and in the fiddle behind the settees) because the bulkheads were > solid and there was no allowance for a backing plate to be installed through > them. > > > > When I installed the tracks, I dry fit the tracks and put blue tape along > the deck on each side so I could easily remove any sealant that squished > out. Then I coated the bottom of the T with 4200, inserted all the screws > and coated the threads with 4200 (to fill the holes full) and then mounted > the track onto the deck with the screws poking down inside. Then install the > backin _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
