I definitely don't want to get into a pointless legal discussion! Obviously everyone's situation- and legal interpretation thereof- is different, yadda yadda.
Will just say in passing having gone through the language of the EPL and other licenses with IP lawyers on a few separate occasions over the years, I have not come across a strong manifestation of this particular interpretation. The risk your lawyers seem to be concerned about has more to do with the EPL's Commercial Distribution language- section 4- which specifies that Contributors/Distributors of EPL code have to indemnify other contributors. This means that a company distributing an application under the EPL could be liable for claims against components that they didn't create and just packaged with their app- e.g. Clojure- except that the EPL also says "The obligations in this section do not apply to any claims or Losses relating to any actual or alleged intellectual property infringement." The intent is for the commercial distribution clause to work with the patent clause- which just means that if you initiate a suit over a component you lose the right to continue to use that component- such that under the EPL * you are not incurring obligations for IP violations in code you distribute but didn't write * if you sue or countersue, you need to keep the suit to 1st party IP, or else you lose the rights to 3rd party IP This protocol has been sufficient for the folks I've worked with but obviously everyone's lawyers get to decide how they feel about it. Obviously Ellison or Myhrvold or some other patent troll could decide that there was IP trespass in Clojure itself. In that case, anyone with deep enough pockets found to be using it would be presented with a bill, license be damned. Anyway- good luck! On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Sam Halliday <sam.halli...@gmail.com> wrote: > It's got nothing to do with contributing to Clojure (the Grant of Right > is standard in all modern free software licences). The problem is the > patent retaliation clause, which I quote from Section 7 of the > [EPL](http://www.eclipse.org/legal/epl-v10.html) > > "If Recipient institutes patent litigation against any entity > (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that > the Program itself (excluding combinations of the Program with other > software or hardware) infringes such Recipient's patent(s), then such > Recipient's rights granted under Section 2(b) shall terminate as of > the date such litigation is filed." > > In other words, if you ever have a legal dispute with anybady about a > patent violation in clojure (which somebody else could have contributed > without your permission), then you lose your right to use clojure. As > in, turn off your production systems, now. > > This could be persued by anybody (corporate or individual, including the > person who you are suing for implementing your patents) who has ever > contributed to Clojure. Rich Hickey is in a privileged position where he > can grant ad hoc / tailored licences to corporate customers, granting > immunity to the patent retaliation clause. > > This may not be a concern for small companies or hobbyists, who are > unlikely to find themselves in such a situation, but it is a major > concern for corporate entities that are often finding themselves in huge > IPR counterclaims with their peers. I can only guess that the current > use of clojure in corporate environments was sneaked in "under the > radar" and a modern legal audit would be quite a gruelling ordeal for > everybody involved in choosing clojure as a platform. > > So, I can enjoy the language, but only as a hobby. > > Best regards, > Sam > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > "A. Levy" <alev...@gmail.com> writes: > > > [ text/plain ] > > Can you elaborate a little more on those nightmare scenarios? From my > (amateur) reading of the EPL, it looks like the patent clauses apply to > contributors to the program. In this case, Clojure. Does developing > something in Clojure force you to release it under the EPL? > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Clojure" group. > > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/i2pHlViYkxg/unsubscribe. > > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > Best regards, > Sam > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
