On Mar 19, 2016 5:33 AM, "Sam Halliday" <sam.halli...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks Aleksander, > > However it's quite the opposite: I'd like to be able to use Clojure in production environments but I cannot because the EPL is an extremely dangerous licence for an IPR-heavy company to use as their language to develop core technology. The patent retaliation clause provides opportunities for competitors to nullify our patents,
I'll probably regret this, but now I'm curious: has this clause ever been tested in the courts? it strikes me as very dubious. a bit like signing away your rights by agreeing to be a slave. not allowed. a license to blackmail, really; there's nothing to stop the Evil version of RH (for example) from dumping tons of patent infringing code into Clojure tomorrow. you can't sue without crippling your business, so you'd have to settle. so from my decidedly non lawyer perspective it would be surprising if this sort of clause would hold up. and I swear to Pete I am not trolling here! > and I'd go so far as to say that the personal risks are career threatening. The only way that legal would approve the use of an EPL-licenced core technology / language would be if we had a private licence in place with Rich Hickey, who has the legal privilege to provide such an arrangement, rendering the patent retaliation clause invalid. That would appease legal, but it is enough to upset management's view of Clojure as a viable option. > > I wouldn't be able to use a GPL licenced lisp either, unless it is just the compiler that is GPL and the runtime libraries are more permissive. There is ample precedent for using GPL tooling at my customers' sites (gcc, git, etc). > > Best regards, > Sam > > > > On Thursday, 10 March 2016 14:58:02 UTC, Aleksander Sumowski wrote: >> >> If you're more keen on GPL-compatible, Clojure-like language with STM/CSP (upcoming) than being currently able to use it in production take a look at Pixie: >> >> https://github.com/pixie-lang/pixie >> >> It's syntax is heavily inspired by Clojure, STM is coming, and it's fast - no JVM. The state is "pre-alpha" though. >> >> Cheers, >> Aleksander >> >> On 10 March 2016 at 14:03, <adrian...@mail.yu.edu> wrote: >>> >>> Common Lisp is timeless in my opinion. :) >>> >>> STMX is a high performance STM implementation for Common Lisp. >>> >>> https://github.com/cosmos72/stmx >>> >>> On SBCL it even compiled down as an optimization to Intel TSX assembly instructions (which incidentally were disabled by the manufacturer unfortunately a couple of years ago due to a major bug; I am not sure if they fixed the bug in newer chips yet). In any event, it's still a great implementation. >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 1:43:38 PM UTC-5, Sam Halliday wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I have been learning clojure as holiday reading (I'm a scala dev and am one of the main authors of ENSIME.org, which brings IDE like support to text editors for Java and Scala). >>>> >>>> Clojure is amazing! I'm really loving learning it. There is so much good stuff in here, plus it's a lisp which is just incredible for me because I've been an Emacs hacker for nearly two decades. >>>> >>>> I've done enough research to know that the clojure licence is off topic and discussions about it make people feel "nauseous", so I'll skip over begging you to change it to MPL or Apache 2.0 and tell you that I cannot use EPL at work. It is blacklisted by many of my customers and the patent retaliation clause gives my legal advisors enough to construct terrifying scenarios that all ended up in the end of my career. Also, I can't add clojure support or use clojure in ENSIME because of the well known GPL / EPL incompatibility. >>>> >>>> So... skipping over that. It seems I can't actually use this beautiful language. But I do a fair bit of emacs-lisp so naturally I'd like to know to what extent the features have been reimplemented? >>>> >>>> I've seen that Emacs 25 is going to have something that looks a bit like destructuring, I've used dash (but there is an idiomatic replacement coming too) and I've seen some "ports" of the threading (I love this macro so much). However direct ports are still subject to the original licence, so it needs to be a clean room implementation (or Rich/the author to release those macros user GPL as an emacs package). >>>> >>>> Is there anything else that is making its way back into Emacs lisp as a result of what has been learnt in Clojure? >>>> >>>> And are there any other lisps which use STM? Emacs is still single threaded so STM is almost useless there. I'd be really interested in a modern lisp with STM and a licence that I could use at work. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Sam >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com >>> >>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com >>> >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> uSwitch is a trading name of uSwitch Ltd. Registered in England and Wales (Company No. 03612689). 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