I specifically know of a large corporation with a strict legal team which has rejected React's license, but accepted both the Eclipse and Apache public licenses. React's license has a similar but much broader clause with respect to patents.
Sam's claim, 'I can only guess that the current use of clojure in corporate environments was sneaked in "under the radar" and a modern legal audit would be quite a gruelling ordeal for everybody involved in choosing clojure as a platform,' is quite strong. And TERRIFYING. But also suspicious. This same verbiage appears in the Apache license and the Artistic license, meaning that if a corporation were to reject licenses with this clause, they would need to avoid a significant part of the Java ecosystem (including Tomcat, Elasticsearch, Hadoop, & Kafka), Node.JS, and Perl. I suspect that Hadoop isn't only used "as a hobby" nor is only "sneaked in", yes? I am not a lawyer. Due diligence required. Your corporation's requirements might vary. However, let me dismiss the FUD that the Clojure or the EPL could never be responsibly used in a corporation. -Jason On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Sam Halliday <sam.halli...@gmail.com> wrote: > It's got nothing to do with contributing to Clojure (the Grant of Right > is standard in all modern free software licences). The problem is the > patent retaliation clause, which I quote from Section 7 of the > [EPL](http://www.eclipse.org/legal/epl-v10.html) > > "If Recipient institutes patent litigation against any entity > (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that > the Program itself (excluding combinations of the Program with other > software or hardware) infringes such Recipient's patent(s), then such > Recipient's rights granted under Section 2(b) shall terminate as of > the date such litigation is filed." > > In other words, if you ever have a legal dispute with anybady about a > patent violation in clojure (which somebody else could have contributed > without your permission), then you lose your right to use clojure. As > in, turn off your production systems, now. > > This could be persued by anybody (corporate or individual, including the > person who you are suing for implementing your patents) who has ever > contributed to Clojure. Rich Hickey is in a privileged position where he > can grant ad hoc / tailored licences to corporate customers, granting > immunity to the patent retaliation clause. > > This may not be a concern for small companies or hobbyists, who are > unlikely to find themselves in such a situation, but it is a major > concern for corporate entities that are often finding themselves in huge > IPR counterclaims with their peers. I can only guess that the current > use of clojure in corporate environments was sneaked in "under the > radar" and a modern legal audit would be quite a gruelling ordeal for > everybody involved in choosing clojure as a platform. > > So, I can enjoy the language, but only as a hobby. > > Best regards, > Sam > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > "A. Levy" <alev...@gmail.com> writes: > > > [ text/plain ] > > Can you elaborate a little more on those nightmare scenarios? From my > (amateur) reading of the EPL, it looks like the patent clauses apply to > contributors to the program. In this case, Clojure. Does developing > something in Clojure force you to release it under the EPL? > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Clojure" group. > > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/i2pHlViYkxg/unsubscribe. > > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > Best regards, > Sam > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
