You can spot a weak argument when euphemisms and stuff we are 
yet-to-encounter start to pop up.

I find puzzler's experience exactly to mine, point by point, and given the 
little talk of multi-threading coding in this board I'd expect the same to 
apply to many others. If anything, the java-in-parens gvec.clj *proves* how 
difficult it is to get Java perf in Clojure. The good "real world" perf 
looks a lot like Java, regardless of where you place the parens. So I agree 
with puzzler, Java is simpler in Java.

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