On 2010-10-30, at 12:32 AM, Michael Gardner wrote: > On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:09 PM, David Nolen wrote: > >> JS brought me to Lisp, I would love to see the Clojure community bring Lisp >> back to JS. However I fail to see what advantage JS gives on the server >> side. From what I've seen the V8 GC and Node.js have a considerable number >> of years to go before they are serious contenders against the JVM for >> non-trivial projects, evented or no. > > Agreed. What is the point of Javascript on the server side? Familiarity? > Consistency with client-side code?
The point isn't entirely Javascript on the server side... - there are an awful lot of non-non-trivial *web* projects :-) - it is (very) fast - websockets/comet based applications absurdly easily set up - this is the kind of thing the entire node.js community is interested in (it isn't a javascript-the-language focused community) Aleph is extremely interesting. How many in the Clojure community know *of* it, let alone *know* it, or have actually *used* it? Know about integrating it with Ring? I'm just pointing out a difference in focus the two communities might have, this is not a criticism of either. Aleph isn't the only thing happening out 'there'. What does the Clojure community know about Mongrel2 and ZeroMQ? It is ridiculously easy to set up a quick prototype of a fancy web app using node.js, and it seems a lot of people aren't seeing a reason to move away from it when they start getting 'serious' about the app. Like I said, it isn't "Javascript on the server" that's going on with node.js > >> More interesting would be something along the lines of CoffeeScript (like >> ClojureScript) that takes a reasonable subset Clojure and compiles into >> efficient JS, allowing Clojure programmers to send Clojure code to clients. > > Yes! Writing Javascript makes me want to throw things. Client-side Clojure > would be fantastic. Certainly I'd kinda like this too. But being in wet-blanket-mode... it's gotta be more. To me the real problem in programming the browser is the DOM, it's *not* a language thing[1]. That has to be dealt with or Clojure on the browser will make you want to throw things too :-) You've also got to deal with the environment: how is Clojure's immutability of data going to fit into an environment where the whole purpose is mucking about with a huge hunk of state (the DOM)? In the short term it seems to me that an "absurdly easy" way to get websocket/comet based servers running in Clojure would be good. At least I'd be happy. This problem is staring me in the face and I've got to do something next week. What do I do? node.js (done in 5 minutes) or somehow get Aleph/Ring/Clojure working? or Mongrel2/Ring/Clojure? or ZeroMQ/Ring/Clojure? or what? That's the kind of problem *I* am having to deal with. I should probably bring this up on the Clojure web dev mailing list. Cheers, Bob [1] and mootools and Google's Closure are making real progress with dealing with the DOM *and* making Javascript more uniform (so is jQuery for that matter) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en ---- Bob Hutchison Recursive Design Inc. http://www.recursive.ca/ weblog: http://xampl.com/so -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
