Hugh, I receive Factor mails, however, I am still learning Forth/Factor. IMHO, you should spend much of your time in Java while casually going through Clojure book. Factor and Clojure are FP languages and I must confess they are close cousins. I have heard you mention gcode and other stuff in Factor mailinglist but I have no clue what they are.
Regards, Emeka On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Hugh Aguilar <hugoagui...@rosycrew.com>wrote: > > > On Sep 17, 9:33 am, Brian <brian.fores...@gmail.com> wrote: > > As a Java programmer coming to Clojure I would be very interested in the > > intended application. How you approach that from a Clojure perspective > is > > what I'm interested in. I've programmed in Lisp in the distant past > > (Symbolics Lisp machines) and still have very found memories of that > > environment. Having programmed in C -> C++ -> Java since then ... well I > > just miss the edit run test cycle that was so natural with those Lisp > > machines. > > I'll give you guys a brief overview of what I want to do. I'm sure > that as Clojure enthusiasts you will want to say that Clojure can do > anything. On the other hand, you might tell me that Clojure is a bad > fit and that I would be better off with xxx, and I would appreciate > that advice too. > > I want to create a DSL for generating gcode for cnc milling machines > and lathes, and maybe even more complicated machines such as 5-axis > laser cutters. I need a language (possibly Clojure) that is simple > enough to be used by non-programmers whose only background in > programming is writing gcode. > > My first choice was Forth. That is by far my own favorite language. I > am considering Clojure primarily because it offers a macro facility > somewhat comparable to Forth compile-time words, which I think is > necessary for writing a DSL. Also, it is similarly interactive, and I > can't really ask the users to compile a program and then trace it in a > debugger --- especially as I consider that to be a clumsy technique > even for me to do. I know that languages such as Groovy and Ruby have > been used for writing DSLs (Grails and Rails), and they don't have > compile-time code, but I don't really understand that kind of > programming --- I've been writing compile-time code all of my life and > that is my standard technique for simplifying programs. The reason why > I am considering Clojure rather than just going with Forth is because > I am interested in Clojure's focus on sequences and laziness. I see > this as a trade-off between thinking about programming in terms of > time (procedural, like Forth) and thinking about programming in terms > of space (sequences, like Clojure). I think that machinists would be > more comfortable thinking about space than time because they generally > work with physical objects that exist in space, and what they > primarily struggle with is thinking about time, which is what raw > gcode is all about. > > One other thing that I need is security. I had considered using > Factor, which is a Lisp/Forth hybrid. I don't think this will work > though because I can't make a language like Factor available to > machinists. The company owners would worry that these guys would trash > the data on the computer's hard-drive and/or use the language to write > computer games and generally goof around on company time. The company > owners are only going to be comfortable with allowing their employees > to program if this programming is done in a sandbox. Pretty much any > language that is written on top of another language will provide this > security. For example, Lua or FICL could be used so long as it is > crippled in such a way as to prevent the user from accessing the hard- > drive or the internet or anything except his own sandbox. Still > though, I can't just write a gcode library in C++ or Factor --- I > would need to write a scripting language on top of C++ or Factor that > provides a safe environment separate from the underlying language. > Clojure should work well because the JVM is a sandbox. There is also > more depth there because the entire Java system would be available to > the user, and still be secure. By comparison, with Lua or FICL the C++ > system is not available except for any libraries that I (laboriously) > write wrappers for. With Clojure I would get the depth of the Java > system, while still having the simplicity of Clojure --- I don't want > to try to tell machinists that they need to learn Java, especially as > I consider that to be a pretty daunting task even for me to do. > > You mentioned having come from a Common Lisp background. Would you > recommend CL rather than Clojure for what I'm doing? > > Do any of you have experience writing raw gcode and/or using some kind > of CAM software to generate gcode? > > Are any of you Forth programmers? > > BTW --- all of you seem to like "Thinking in Java," so I will start > with that one. > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
