Dennis Peterson wrote:
Jim Maul wrote:
Bart Silverstrim wrote:
On Nov 9, 2006, at 2:09 PM, Jim Redman wrote:
Folks,
I have to say, of all the lists I subscribe to, the vocal members of
this list are the most arrogant and insulting. However, I consider
comments such as Luca Gibelli's, bandwidth wasting, "We are happy to
suffer this loss." and Dennis Peterson's "His specific problem is he
lacks the skill to install and manage the product" reflect more
about the person making the comment, rather than the target.
You're forgetting one detail that probably was the most provoking,
though. He started right off saying he "cherishes his ignorance".
How many of our problems as sysadmins come from user ignorance? How
much worse is it when you have to deal with another peer's ignorance,
and worse yet, WILLFUL ignorance? "Hi, I'm hired to do a complicated
and skillful job as a sysadmin, but want to know nothing about how or
why this software stuff works...can you help me? By, like, doing it
for me?"
Maybe i missed it, but where in his original email did he ask anyone
to help him by doing something for him? From what i can see, he didnt
even ask for help at all. The way i took it was:
Gee, I downloaded this package for clamav and installed it and now
there are all sorts of other things that still need to be done to get
it working correctly. Maybe clamav developers could work with the
package maintainers to make this process go more smoothly?
This is precisely a request for help and for someone, anyone but him, to
build a product to his specification. Your statement is made illogical
by your example.
Says who, you? Sorry, but I really couldn't care less about what you
have to say. By the way, it was a SUGGESTION, not "precisely a request
for help" as you seem to think.
In fact he went on to write several screens of rant about why he doesn't
like the services of the ClamAV packagers. Had he written code instead
of smearing their efforts he'd have a working installer now.
Sorry, everyone isnt as smart as you think you are.
In fact, apache, a far more common application than ClamAV, requires
vastly more after-install configuration and management effort than does
ClamAV, so his premise is farcical.
Yes, but will it WORK without this after-install configuration and
management? Yes, it will.
There are no well-known IP ports for clamd and no well-known locations
for Unix sockets. There is no master plan to tie various milter/filter
programs together to use ClamAV. I use a milter and Sendmail. Others may
prefer to use procmail. SpamAssassin is popular. Bringing it all
together is what the admin is for. Continued user intervention is
extremely necessary - this product has no brain - come prepared to use
your own.
Of course. This job is not for the braindead or those who would rather
not exercise their mind. That is in no way a reason for a product not
to be improved if there is room for improvement.
Finally, it is a service not offered by the ClamAV team and personally
I'd prefer they focus on getting 0.90 released than hand-holding slacker
admins. My, aren't I being judgmental! Hell yes. I'm tired of sharing
critical Internet services with admins who are not committed to their
responsibilities.
And the OP may very well not be one of those committed admins. Who
cares? He is still human and may actually have a valid suggestion -
imagine that?! You seem to have completely ignored the real reason for
the post and instead focused on the negatives as you seem to have some
personal vendetta against anyone that isnt as smart as you. I bet its
lonely on top your little pedestal, no?
The binaries page has several links to packagers who are in a position
to help. One of them supports his package. Those two should get together
and solve this hellish problem. And he should quit laying blame on
everyone else for his dire condition.
To think that there *might* actually be some packagers who are
listening. Blasphemous!
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