Oh! Okay, so when I said I came up dry, I meant "nothing but a static analysis company". I thought there was probably trade terminology at the heart of this that I was unfamiliar with... Guess it was just the company after all =)
I'll have to go check that out! -mrt Original Message From: Jon Trulson Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 20:17 To: cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] Docbook Yes. It's a static code analysis tool. Current stats are: 3851 total defects, 1831 outstanding, 38 dismissed, 1982 fixed. So you can see another reason why I shudder at some of the modules in CDE :) Some of the things I've seen... If you have a (free) account there, or a github account, you can go here: https://scan.coverity.com/projects/common-desktop-environment Login, and hit the "Add me to project" button to see the defects, and maybe, fix a few dozen of them for kicks :) -jon On 08/01/2018 07:03 PM, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote: > I believe he is referring to this online linter: https://scan.coverity.com/ > > > Thank you for your time, > -Chase > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > On August 1, 2018 7:56 PM, Matthew R. Trower <d...@blackshard.net> wrote: > >> Yeah, I can respect everything you said here, and more or less agree. >> >> By the way, what is "coverity"? Is it related to "coverage"? I tried to look >> up a definition some time back and came up dry. >> >> -mrt >> Original Message >> From: Jon Trulson >> Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 12:09 >> To: Matthew R. Trower >> Cc: Marcin Cieslak; cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> Subject: Re: [cdesktopenv-devel] Docbook >> >> On 07/31/2018 08:47 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote: >> >>> Jon Trulson j...@radscan.com writes: >>> >>>> On 07/31/2018 07:53 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jon Trulson j...@radscan.com writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Not a clue. I think ultimately we would want it to generate HTML and >>>>>> just use a web browser for both help and the guides. >>>>> >>>>> I'd really hate to see that. >>>>> >>>>> - DtInfo is part of CDE. >>>>> >>>>> - DtInfo (like all of CDE) is very lightweight. >>>>> >>>>> - DtInfo provides index and search capabilities (this is a primary >>>>> strength of DocBook). Doesn't that sort of go out the window with >>>>> HTML? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Well, converting to docbook XML (not html) should preserve all of that >>>> functionality actually. With that, we could generate HTML if we >>>> wanted, or PDF's of the guides, or a variety of other formats. But I >>>> don't know what the cde-specific software like dthelp and dtinfo are >>>> actually doing. >>>> There's the format and manipulation of the documentation itself - this >>>> is what I'm talking about. >>> >>> Sure, I'm with you so far (on DocBook XML). But you mentioned >>> generating HTML and just using a web browser. Are you suggesting that >>> we throw out DtInfo and friends and use a web browser (e.g. Firefox, >>> Dillo) instead? Or simply that we could generate additional formats >>> (e.g. HTML) for convenience? Or, are you suggesting that an HTML >>> renderer be embedded into DtInfo? >>> I see below that you probably don't want to throw it out, so I guess I >>> misunderstood you here (on HTML and browsers). What did you mean? >> >> No, I don't want to throw it out, though in the end, we may want to >> alter how it works internally - say using some sort of html widget for >> display and navigation rather than the custom parser/renderer that >> appears to be present now. >> >> But again, I do not know enough about how the internals work to do >> anything other than speculate at this time. >> >>>> I'm not sure what you mean by out-of-tree technology. I do not think >>>> trying to maintain ancient copies of code (nsgmls, et. al) is a viable >>>> solution. No one maintains it. >>> >>> Well, I guess I just don't think the situation is so dire. We're here >>> in 2018, and it's still chugging along. I don't see any tickets about >>> it. Is it broken? >>> I'm not really suggesting that the ideal route is to keep our in-tree >>> toolchain forever, though. The statement about in-tree, out-of-tree, >>> modern, etc came about as a result of general feelings about the tech >>> industry's push for newer and shinier, even at the cost of (in my eyes) >>> quality. I feel especially keenly about it in heritage projects like >>> this. I think that balance is important, and am conservative about >>> ripping out existing tech in favor of new. I'm having a hard time >>> putting my full thoughts on this to digital paper right now, and it's >>> probably not worth it as I think I may have misunderstood you. >>> Also, I suspect you've learned a thing or two in your career about >>> bit-rot and maintainership that I should probably defer to. =) >> >> My issue is in duplicating existing software with older, unmaintained >> versions. I don't like that. It's extra maintenance and a source of >> potential trouble (security issues, coverity issues, even compiler >> warning issues.) >> >> Time and development resources for working on CDE are restricted - >> therefore the less we have to worry about, the better off we will be in >> terms of being able to deliver something usable in a modern environment >> with the resources we have... >> >> Also, I don't think the future of CDE is in keeping things exactly as >> they are -- the world has moved on from some of the technologies that >> were brand new when CDE was under active development. I don't think it >> is reasonable, or feasible to keep everything exactly as it was in 1995. >> >> So, no I don't want to remove dtinfo and dthelp, but updating them to >> something based on modern standards and practices is not a bad goal >> either. Hell, some of this stuff was developed before the Internet was >> even a thing. And some of the code is really bad. Preserving and >> maintaining that is not long term a goal, it can't be. >> >>>> I do suggest we offload the utilities portion (like osgmls) to OS >>>> versions and not keep bit-rotting versions in our tree. >>> >>> I don't have a problem with using system opensp. I don't see that >>> affecting anybody, really, so I'm happy to reduce our code footprint. >>> >>>> I am also for converting the current older SGML document formats to >>>> XML and docbook 5. As to how that affects dthelp/dtinfo, I just don't >>>> know at this time. >>> >>> Thats probably reasonable enough, if not pressing (not that you >>> suggested it was). I'm curious about SGML (a scheme dialect? I'm with >>> the editor (esr?) on this one), but it seems the DocBook community >>> prefers XML (considered lightweight in this context? Oh my). In >>> addition to the newer tooling, it might make onboarding easier for >>> revising / adding documentation to the project. Honestly, I suspect XML >>> probably is more reasonable for documentation anyway. >> >> Yes, there's a lot to learn here. That's another problem - trying to >> maintain something you don't really understand :) >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Jon Trulson >> >> "Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle." >> >> - Zapp Brannigan >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> cdesktopenv-devel mailing list >> cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > cdesktopenv-devel mailing list > cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel > -- Jon Trulson "Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle." - Zapp Brannigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ cdesktopenv-devel mailing list cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ cdesktopenv-devel mailing list cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
