To answer a previous question you posed, It worked fairly well, with one minor problem that dtinfogen keeps throwing a very nondescript error of "dtinfogen: sgmls not found make[4]: *** [usersGuide/TOC.sgm] Error 255"
Thank you for your time, -Chase ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On July 31, 2018 3:06 PM, Jon Trulson <j...@radscan.com> wrote: > I guess we should at some point discuss the whole SGML infrastructure in > CDE. > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/sgml.html > > This link provides a decent 'demystification' of docbook and where it is > going. > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/ > > XML is the current markup format, and explains why the openjade (onsgmls > et. al.) tools haven't been updated since 2005. We are essentially > replacing one ancient tool, with a slightly less ancient tool. > > From the page: > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/sgml.html > > =-= > "13.3. Why SGML DocBook is dead > > The DSSSL toolchain is, as far as new development goes, effectively > dead. The XSLT toolchain has reached production status in mid-2002; a > working version shipped in Red Hat 7.3. It's where DocBook developers > are putting almost all of their effort. > > The reason for the change to XML was threefold. First, SGML turned out > to be too complicated to use; then, DSSSL turned out to be too > complicated to live with; then, significant parts of the DSSSL toolchain > turned out to be weak and irredeemably messy. > > Relative to SGML, XML has a reduced feature set that is sufficient for > almost all purposes but much easier to understand and build parsers for. > SGML-processing tools (such as validating parsers) have to carry around > support for a lot of features that DocBook and other text markup systems > never actually used. Removing these features made XML simpler and > XML-processing tools faster. > > The language used to describe SGML DTDs is sufficiently spiky and > forbidding that composing SGML DTDs was something of a black art. XML > DTDs, on the other hand, can be described in a dialect of XML itself; > there does not need to be a separate DTD language. An XML description of > an XML DTD is called a schema; the term DTD itself will probably pass > out of use as the standards for schemas firm up. > > But mostly the DSSSL toolchain is dead because DSSSL itself, the SGML > stylesheet description language in that toolchain, proved just too > arcane for most human beings, and made stylesheets too difficult to > write and modify. (It was a dialect of Scheme. Your humble editor, a > LISP-head from way back, shakes his head in sad bemusement that this > should drive people away.) > > XML fans like to sum up all these changes with "XML: tastes great, less > filling." > =-= > > :) > > So - is anyone on this list familiar with docbook XML want to take up > the task of upgrading our documentation format and generation to > something from this decade? > > Short term, using a new onsgmls is probably the way to go, but long > term, it seems clear we need to update to a proper, modern docbook XML. > > -jon > > On 07/31/2018 12:53 PM, Jon Trulson wrote: > > > On 07/30/2018 10:29 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote: > > > > > Chase via cdesktopenv-devel cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > writes: > > > > > > > The reason I chose opensp instead of sp is simply because when I tried > > > > installing sp on Lubuntu, it gave me an error saying "Package sp has > > > > no installation candidate", although it is in the debian repos, so I > > > > don't know whats happening with that. I also picked it due to looking > > > > at the *bsd and solaris repos, and most seem to have opensp, but not > > > > sp itself. > > > > > > > On July 30, 2018 5:53 PM, Jon Trulson j...@radscan.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, I'd like to hear from Chase as to whether that is actually the > > > > > case on Debian. > > > > > As I mentioned before, nsgmls exists on Ubuntu 16.04 after installing > > > > > the "sp" package. > > > > > > At least on illumos/OpenSolaris, opensp contains onsgmls and nsgmls. > > > The latter is a link to the former. I don't think the opensp package > > > itself contains these links; I think it is a distribution "extra". > > > Debian 9 contains opensp, but not sp. There is no symlink from onsgmls > > > to nsgmls. I can't comment on BSD at this time. > > > > I checked on ubuntu 16.04, it has both "sp" and "opensp". Installing > > "opensp" does provide the onsgmls program. nsgmls comes from the "sp" > > package, and is not a symlink to onsgmls. > > I have confirmed that FreeBSD also has opensp in its ports collection -- > > I'm not sure about OpenBSD. So it does seem like opensp is the way to go. > > > > > I'm not really familiar with these programs, but it seems to me that > > > OpenSP is the continuation of SP (any expert is welcome to correct me). > > > As such, I'd say we should default to using that (and onsgmls), rather > > > than old SP. If people want/need to use old SP, they can always > > > override it in host.def. > > > > That's the impression I got too, however if you go to the opensp > > (OpenJade) SF page, it isn't updated very often, and there seems to be > > no interaction with the developers. > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/openjade/ > > There are 71 open tickets reports with no responses by any of the > > developers that I could see in my skimming around. It does not seem > > very actively developed, but there does not seem to be any alternative. > > > > > And of course, if we know about types of systems where that's necessary, > > > it could go into their system cf files. > > > Some links about SP and OpenSP > > > SP: http://www.jclark.com/sp/howtoget.htm > > > OpenSP: http://openjade.sourceforge.net/doc/index.htm > > > Version histories, which seem indicative of a transition. > > > SP: http://openjade.sourceforge.net/doc/new.htm > > > OpenSP: http://openjade.sourceforge.net/doc/NEWS > > > OpenJade in general > > > http://openjade.sourceforge.net/ > > > > I guess we should stick to onsgmls for now. > > Chase: Did it actually work well? The help system, man pages, and > > dtinfo stuff worked/looked ok? > > -- > > Jon Trulson > > "Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle." > > - Zapp Brannigan > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > cdesktopenv-devel mailing list > cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ cdesktopenv-devel mailing list cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
