Surprisingly no, the man pages and the other docs wrote without a hiccup.
Thank you for your time, -Chase ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On July 31, 2018 8:01 PM, Jon Trulson <j...@radscan.com> wrote: > On 07/31/2018 06:55 PM, Chase wrote: > > > To answer a previous question you posed, It worked fairly well, with one > > minor problem that dtinfogen keeps throwing a very nondescript error of > > "dtinfogen: sgmls not found > > make[4]: *** [usersGuide/TOC.sgm] Error 255" > > Ok, so creating the guides was broken. sgmls is the predecessor to > nsgmls. There is a copy of it in program/dtdocbook. Something must > have gotten confused or broken with your changes to want to try to use it. > > Were there errors in your compile other than the one you listed above? > I would guess so. > > -jon > > > Thank you for your time, > > -Chase > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On July 31, 2018 3:06 PM, Jon Trulson j...@radscan.com wrote: > > > > > I guess we should at some point discuss the whole SGML infrastructure in > > > CDE. > > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/sgml.html > > > This link provides a decent 'demystification' of docbook and where it is > > > going. > > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/ > > > XML is the current markup format, and explains why the openjade (onsgmls > > > et. al.) tools haven't been updated since 2005. We are essentially > > > replacing one ancient tool, with a slightly less ancient tool. > > > From the page: > > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/sgml.html > > > =-= > > > "13.3. Why SGML DocBook is dead > > > The DSSSL toolchain is, as far as new development goes, effectively > > > dead. The XSLT toolchain has reached production status in mid-2002; a > > > working version shipped in Red Hat 7.3. It's where DocBook developers > > > are putting almost all of their effort. > > > The reason for the change to XML was threefold. First, SGML turned out > > > to be too complicated to use; then, DSSSL turned out to be too > > > complicated to live with; then, significant parts of the DSSSL toolchain > > > turned out to be weak and irredeemably messy. > > > Relative to SGML, XML has a reduced feature set that is sufficient for > > > almost all purposes but much easier to understand and build parsers for. > > > SGML-processing tools (such as validating parsers) have to carry around > > > support for a lot of features that DocBook and other text markup systems > > > never actually used. Removing these features made XML simpler and > > > XML-processing tools faster. > > > The language used to describe SGML DTDs is sufficiently spiky and > > > forbidding that composing SGML DTDs was something of a black art. XML > > > DTDs, on the other hand, can be described in a dialect of XML itself; > > > there does not need to be a separate DTD language. An XML description of > > > an XML DTD is called a schema; the term DTD itself will probably pass > > > out of use as the standards for schemas firm up. > > > But mostly the DSSSL toolchain is dead because DSSSL itself, the SGML > > > stylesheet description language in that toolchain, proved just too > > > arcane for most human beings, and made stylesheets too difficult to > > > write and modify. (It was a dialect of Scheme. Your humble editor, a > > > LISP-head from way back, shakes his head in sad bemusement that this > > > should drive people away.) > > > XML fans like to sum up all these changes with "XML: tastes great, less > > > filling." > > > =-= > > > :) > > > So - is anyone on this list familiar with docbook XML want to take up > > > the task of upgrading our documentation format and generation to > > > something from this decade? > > > Short term, using a new onsgmls is probably the way to go, but long > > > term, it seems clear we need to update to a proper, modern docbook XML. > > > -jon > > > On 07/31/2018 12:53 PM, Jon Trulson wrote: > > > > > > > On 07/30/2018 10:29 PM, Matthew R. Trower wrote: > > > > > > > > > Chase via cdesktopenv-devel cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > writes: > > > > > > > > > > > The reason I chose opensp instead of sp is simply because when I > > > > > > tried > > > > > > installing sp on Lubuntu, it gave me an error saying "Package sp has > > > > > > no installation candidate", although it is in the debian repos, so I > > > > > > don't know whats happening with that. I also picked it due to > > > > > > looking > > > > > > at the *bsd and solaris repos, and most seem to have opensp, but not > > > > > > sp itself. > > > > > > > > > > > On July 30, 2018 5:53 PM, Jon Trulson j...@radscan.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'd like to hear from Chase as to whether that is actually > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > case on Debian. > > > > > > > As I mentioned before, nsgmls exists on Ubuntu 16.04 after > > > > > > > installing > > > > > > > the "sp" package. > > > > > > > > > > At least on illumos/OpenSolaris, opensp contains onsgmls and nsgmls. > > > > > The latter is a link to the former. I don't think the opensp package > > > > > itself contains these links; I think it is a distribution "extra". > > > > > Debian 9 contains opensp, but not sp. There is no symlink from > > > > > onsgmls > > > > > to nsgmls. I can't comment on BSD at this time. > > > > > > > > I checked on ubuntu 16.04, it has both "sp" and "opensp". Installing > > > > "opensp" does provide the onsgmls program. nsgmls comes from the "sp" > > > > package, and is not a symlink to onsgmls. > > > > I have confirmed that FreeBSD also has opensp in its ports collection -- > > > > I'm not sure about OpenBSD. So it does seem like opensp is the way to > > > > go. > > > > > > > > > I'm not really familiar with these programs, but it seems to me that > > > > > OpenSP is the continuation of SP (any expert is welcome to correct > > > > > me). > > > > > As such, I'd say we should default to using that (and onsgmls), rather > > > > > than old SP. If people want/need to use old SP, they can always > > > > > override it in host.def. > > > > > > > > That's the impression I got too, however if you go to the opensp > > > > (OpenJade) SF page, it isn't updated very often, and there seems to be > > > > no interaction with the developers. > > > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/openjade/ > > > > There are 71 open tickets reports with no responses by any of the > > > > developers that I could see in my skimming around. It does not seem > > > > very actively developed, but there does not seem to be any alternative. > > > > > > > > > And of course, if we know about types of systems where that's > > > > > necessary, > > > > > it could go into their system cf files. > > > > > Some links about SP and OpenSP > > > > > SP: http://www.jclark.com/sp/howtoget.htm > > > > > OpenSP: http://openjade.sourceforge.net/doc/index.htm > > > > > Version histories, which seem indicative of a transition. > > > > > SP: http://openjade.sourceforge.net/doc/new.htm > > > > > OpenSP: http://openjade.sourceforge.net/doc/NEWS > > > > > OpenJade in general > > > > > http://openjade.sourceforge.net/ > > > > > > > > I guess we should stick to onsgmls for now. > > > > Chase: Did it actually work well? The help system, man pages, and > > > > dtinfo stuff worked/looked ok? > > > > > > -- > > > Jon Trulson > > > "Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle." > > > > > > - Zapp Brannigan > > > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > cdesktopenv-devel mailing list > > > cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel > > -- > > Jon Trulson > > "Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodle." > > - Zapp Brannigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ cdesktopenv-devel mailing list cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
