Dear Paul, I fully agree with Georg and the others. As I said in my first reaction, with the new coot, the inhibitor or side chain often does not end up a little wrong, but goes off completely in the wrong direction, which makes me wonder whether I had somehow selected the wrong map. It might also be that the default settings that had been distributed with coot are wrong. I will try to find an example that is non-confidential, but often the moment you want something to go wrong, everything works perfectly.
The old real-space refinement was intuitive and easy to use and did exactly what the user expected, without having to consult the manual!😊 The result might not have been perfect, but was good enough for subsequent Refmac, Buster, Phenix refinement. Best regards, Herman -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> Im Auftrag von Georg Zocher Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. September 2020 17:22 An: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Betreff: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot 0.8 EXTERNAL : Real sender is owner-ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk Dear Paul, people are complaining that they have issues fitting their model in real space using coot 0.9.x. Personally, I very briefly used coot other the last months but also have problems using RSR properly because I'm used to do it the way it was over the last 10 years. This might be due to my ignorance that I did not have a more closer look into the new features of RSR in 0.9 release and how to use them. But from the user site it's different to handle now. I do not understand your Ferrari comparison (sorry) as I would not buy one even if I would have more money than one can spend. But I would take a cup of coffee as an example. If you always go to the same dealer to get your coffee in the morning as you know you get a very descent and excellent tasting cup of coffee that you fully enjoy every morning than you really get used to it. It might be than a hard time for you if your coffee dealer tells you: Sorry guys, I do have now an optimized coffee that is much better, taste a lot better, is fair produced,... It's just not the coffee you drunk over the last 10 years and I will not offer that one anymore. You might give the new one a chance, you might find it as excellent as the dealer but you might not. From my point of view it's the lack of choice that personally I do not like so much, especially if there is no other coffee dealer around... Nevertheless, I'm aware and fully respect all the effort you put in the development of coot and I'm really grateful that coot is available. All the best, Georg Am 08.09.20 um 17:44 schrieb Paul Emsley: > On 08/09/2020 16:25, Georg Zocher wrote: >> >> >> we have the same experience in our lab. > > > What experience is that? I am still in the dark about you think is now > worse. > > >> Personally, I did would not like to judge here, as so far, I did not >> have had enough time to get into the new RSR of coot 0.9.x by myself. >> But many colleagues did not like the new refinement module maybe just >> as they are used to the method in all coot versions before. > > > You have a Ferrari parked beside your house but you want to to take > the bus to work because that's what you've always done. Or maybe the > Ferrari is parked around the back and you don't know it's there? > > >> >> I just thought if it wouldn't be an option to let the user decide >> what kind of RSR implementation she/he would like to use and give >> them the choice via an option in coot preferences? > > > That would be possible but not easy. Unlike much of the CCP4 suite, > Coot is Free Software. But, again... why would you want to take the > bus? 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