Hmmm....this explanation seems to add another discrepancy - I think the connection to the physical process is lost - I cannot rotate first about something I don't have yet.
Let me try to interpret what E wrote: "I just have to write out matrices: CCP4 rotation matrix: [R11 R12 R13] [x] [R21 R22 R23] [y] [R31 R32 R33] [z] where x y z are orthogonal coordinates relative to fixed axes" I suppose from following this means rotating coordinate system, i.e. Euler convention. "represents a rotation of ccordinates by first gamma then beta then alpha as Phil says:" [R11 R12 R13] [R21 R22 R23] [R31 R32 R33] == [R_alpha_about Z0] {R_beta_about_Y1] [ R_gamma_about_Z2] in br alternate notation R = RZ0(al)RY1(be)RZ2(ga) but this means: apply the first physical rotation about z2 (I don't have z2 yet!), then about Y1 and then alpha about zo and this is NOT what Phil says: Phil says: "rotate by gamma around z (i.e. zo), then by beta around the new y (i.e. y1) , then by alpha around the new z (i.e. z") again, R = Rz(al)Ry(be)Rz(ga)" i.e., in e/br notation R = Rz"(al)Ry(be)Rzo(ga) So I think "phil" is correct as far as the physical rotations go - first about the old Z axis which I know, then Y1, then about new Z2. The sequence of angles in R fits the Euler convention. That is consistent. I'll get back to the roll-pitch-yaw convention about fixed X0,Y0, and Z0, their conversion, and the Navaza issue once it is sorted out what the interpretation of R in Euler convention truly is - Eleanor R(ZYZ")or Phil R(Z"YZ). I'll tally all in a summary B 'tin man' R