I've managed heavy sites too. The young ones don't learn the things as fast as you'd think. They can google examples and copy and paste things, but they make a lot of mistakes because they don't learn the "why" or how software and hardware systems interact.
You'll get your pace up once you have lots of your own examples that you've figured out how to do on your own, and then can glance back at. I read cake's code, read everyone else's code on github, and tinker with other frameworks. There are so many good things out there that others have done, and if what someone else made isn't quite what you need, take their code as inspiration. To me the only thing that's really lacking is very many good (more advanced) examples of ajax scenarios with 2.x. For development as you go along, you'd naturally take your controller methods and turn them into components where you'd see they'd need to be reused, the same with helpers. For scaling to larger sites you'd really want to debug and see where your bottle necks are and design appropriately for the bottleneck. If you've been around that block enough times you can foresee all of the bottlenecks you will have. You'll naturally have lots of DUH moments and feel like a moron as you learn, that's what learning is all about. A man isn't worth his salt unless he doesn't appreciate the grind and the discipline. On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:46 PM, bs28723 <[email protected] > wrote: > Thanks John. I am familiar with the mythical man month - good stuff! > > You, Michael and Steve, got me to re-look at what I was really trying to > ask. I think my questions are really more about "really" understanding MVC > and ORM than cake. Cake is just the code that implements MVC. While I > understand what MVC is and does. I can define it, and I can write simple > applications using it. (fat model, skinny controller) - I am not confident > in all my architecture decisions and able explain all my choices. I feel > like I am still guessing, testing, and reworking things all the time. To > me, there is a big difference between good code architecture and well > written code. right now, I am trying to make sure that I am putting the > code in the right spot. It may be crappy code, but at least it is in the > model or controller where it belongs. Maybe some day I can fix the crappy > code. But I want to avoid putting great code in the wrong place and end > up with a crappy system. I am not sure that I am explaining this any > better, but my knowledge gap is the MVC architecture. The data model is > probably good for now. I am sure someone could improve it, I don't claim to > be perfect, it will probably grow and change over time anyway. But it is > some of the MVC expertise that I am looking to learn. > > An analogy that I can came up with is, that I think I am walking in terms > of MVC and Cake, and I want to start jogging or running. But maybe, I am > really still crawling and I need to keep working, and coding, and testing, > and reworking, to learn to walk, before I can run. I think I am a fast > learner and I have learned everything that I can get my hands on, but I > need more. I feel like a young Jedi wanting to learn more and more, so I > can become a Master sooner. Or maybe it is because I am 53, I have been > designing projects and the last real programming I did was on an Unix > System V device driver 20 years ago and this ORM stuff is a little Greek. > Not to mention that all these young kids are picking this up in seconds, > and I just want to keep up. LOL > > John, you should be very proud of the system you built below. I spent 5 > years doing system architecture for AT&T, helping people design > architectures like the one you describe below. For us it was standard, but > a lot of people probably don't understand the capability or the complexity > behind a scalable DB architecture with clustered servers with masters and > slaves. This is a great testament to you and your team, and to Cake that > it can handle this large project. > > Thanks again to you, Michael & Steve. I think I am going to try to learn > more about MVC and ORB. Hopefully, I can find some things to help be learn > to run, but if not, I will just keep writing coded, learning, rewriting and > learn it over time. > > Bill > > > On 6/6/2012 11:41 AM, John Hardy [via CakePHP] wrote: > > A computer architect should just look at what cake does. > > It bootstraps request into and MVC architecture. It has a built in ORM, > and some injection points to customize and manipulate data throughout the > request. > > Cake is not gonna make you or break you, if your site it built shitty, > it's not because of the framework. > > It can handle a large infrastructure. You've already searched, there are > no best practices for cake, it's not needed, it's MVC, ORM etc. It's > computer science and software engineering. > > My site serves over 1 Million pages a day, over 600k in videos. > > I have over 90 models shared between two domains ( admin and site ) > > Hundreds of controllers, hundreds of views. > > I load balance between 8 16gb nodes. > > My database architecture is horizontally scaled between 1 master, 3 > slaves, 1 session server, and 1 data warehouse server. > > I run a cluster of two memcached servers. > > Do I have shitty code in my site, you're damn right I do. But its > getting the job done, and keeping food on peoples tables. > I can always go back with a better strategy to handle it later. but there > is much more good code in there too. > > You suffer from second system effect. Read the mythical man month. it > will help you. > > > On Jun 6, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Steve Found wrote: > > Yes, I have the eBook of this that I bought from Apress. I believe it is > for cake 1.3 ? > > Although well worthy of a read, I felt there was a lot of wheel > re-invention going on. For example, they implement their own tree handling > code for categories when there is already a perfectly satisfactory > TreeBehavior class in Cake and they did not really explain why they felt > the need to do this. They also concentrate a lot on the use of elements. > > To talk about the original question, the way cake works IMHO is to > distribute logic between all three of Behavior, Component and Helper > classes with behaviors extending models, Components extending controllers > and Helpers extending views. The best analogy I can think of for these is > the C++ multiple inheritance concept where functions are added to the > classes to give them more methods. For example a model with both Tree and > Containable behaviours is both of those things in addition to being a model. > > To have a concept, say for example you wanted an edit box that plugged > into junit's autocompletion, you may well write a plugin that contained all > three of behaviours, components and helpers to achieve what you want. > > Good examples of this can be found in the CakeDC github repository and I > think this is a good a repository as any to see good Cake coding practises. > > https://github.com/CakeDC > > Hope this is of some help, > > Steve (Ratty) > > > On 06/06/12 03:28, bs28723 wrote: > > anyone familiar with this book? > > Practical CakePHP Projects (Expert's Voice in Web Development) by > Richard Miller, John Omokore and Kai Chan (Dec 4, 2008) > > or other books that provide good examples of the > Fat Model, Skinny controller Concept? > > On Sunday, June 3, 2012 9:04:26 AM UTC-4, ibejohn818 wrote: >> >> Fat model, skinny controller. >> Separation of presentation and data >> >> A couple Core concepts in building a mote maintainable app. >> However nothing is ever 100 perfect for all situations, learn from >> writing your own shitty code and do not get caught in the spiral of over >> engineering. Keep it simple and clever. >> On Jun 2, 2012 11:18 AM, "bs28723" wrote: >> >>> I am probably looking for something that does not exist online, but only >>> in a few folks heads. :-) But maybe some parts of this exists. You >>> never know unless you ask...... >>> >>> I am quickly learning a lot about MVC architecture and CakePHP over the >>> last couple months. The cookbook, lots of trial and error, and this >>> group are helping me learn - so thanks! But, I am finding myself using >>> simple examples to learn or implement something. Then as it scales, >>> realize that I should have done this with a helper, behavior or >>> component. And now, I have to go back and redesign this, to do it >>> correctly. Great that I am learning, but this is delaying my project. >>> Sigh. >>> >>> So, I am looking for more advanced examples, tutorials, or best >>> practices to "hopefully" allow me to skip over some of the basic >>> learning curve and get right to an architecture that will support a >>> medium to large site with lots of capabilities. >>> >>> Am I asking for too much? :-) >>> Any suggestions on where to get this advanced information or education I >>> am looking for? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> bill >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> View this message in context: Looking for MVC & CakePHP Best practice >>> doc, examples for Med to large >>> sites<http://cakephp.1045679.n5.nabble.com/Looking-for-MVC-CakePHP-Best-practice-doc-examples-for-Med-to-large-sites-tp5708484.html> >>> Sent from the CakePHP mailing list >>> archive<http://cakephp.1045679.n5.nabble.com/>at >>> Nabble.com. >>> -- >>> >>> -- > Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials > http://tv.cakephp.org > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help > others with their CakePHP related questions. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [hidden email] <http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5708597&i=0> For > more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php > > > > -- > Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials > http://tv.cakephp.org > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help > others with their CakePHP related questions. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [hidden email] <http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5708597&i=1> For > more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php > > > -- > Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials > http://tv.cakephp.org > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help > others with their CakePHP related questions. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [hidden email] <http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5708597&i=2> For > more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php > > > ------------------------------ > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion > below: > > http://cakephp.1045679.n5.nabble.com/Looking-for-MVC-CakePHP-Best-practice-doc-examples-for-Med-to-large-sites-tp5708484p5708597.html > To start a new topic under CakePHP, email [hidden > email]<http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5708606&i=0> > To unsubscribe from CakePHP, click here. > NAML<http://cakephp.1045679.n5.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml> > > > ------------------------------ > View this message in context: Re: Looking for MVC & CakePHP Best practice > doc, examples for Med to large > sites<http://cakephp.1045679.n5.nabble.com/Looking-for-MVC-CakePHP-Best-practice-doc-examples-for-Med-to-large-sites-tp5708484p5708606.html> > > Sent from the CakePHP mailing list > archive<http://cakephp.1045679.n5.nabble.com/>at Nabble.com. > > -- > Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials > http://tv.cakephp.org > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help > others with their CakePHP related questions. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] For more options, visit this group > at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php > -- Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials http://tv.cakephp.org Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. 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