--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Gautam Mukunda wrote: > Nope. I am glad that the majority of the Iraqis are > not giving up hope and declaring an all out war on > the coalition but that doesn't make my statement > 'questionable'. Living with constant uncertainty > *is* tiring and analysts/politicians ought to keep > that in mind *before* an entire country is pushed to > the point of open,armed rebellion
But this doesn't track at all with what I said. The majority of Iraqis _in opinion polls that have been taken by independent organizations_ do not want the Allied forces to leave. They want us to stick around. > For all I know, you might be right but that is not > what I've read. The latest news report I've read on > the subject stated that although the coalition has > been stating that the electricity levels have > reached pre-war levels and above, the truth is that > it took almost an entire year to reach that level > briefly before things started crumbling. This > article can be found somewhere in the last 10 > entries or so of the blog 'Fair and balanced War > News'. I don't have time to look for it right now, > though - am rather busy these days. Ritu, I know the Indian press, and it's _virulently_ anti-American. I still read the Deccan Herald on occasion. I'm also pretty familiar with the status of things in Iraq, for obvious reasons, and things are quite clearly improving in terms of basic infrastructure - despite the constant attempts by the insurgents to cripple them. > Mmm, you might want to read all the articles about > the Iraqis who have been arrested and imprisoned for > weeks before being released. They all seem to find > living this way rather difficult. I'm sure they do. They also seem to prefer it to being, you know, tortured and then executed. You could, I suppose, bribe people under Saddam's regime to find the shattered remains of whoever was taken into custody. Somehow I don't think _anyone_ thinks that was preferable to the current situation. Your argument above boils down to this is non-ideal, the old situation was non-ideal, therefore they are the same. That's specious. > Now, Gautam, what would make you assume such a > thing? :) > I clearly said that at least earlier they knew whom > to approach/bribe for information....The inference > was obvious, I thought. See above. > Nope, they are just made to spend days transferring > excreta from one barrel to the another with the help > of a spoon! Infinitely better than being shredded > alive but still not an optimal way to treat > prisoners, wouldn't you say? I'm sorry, you have evidence for this? Again, your argument boils down to - you aren't perfect, so you're no better than Saddam Hussein. > *l* > > I think you are slightly confused Gautam. I don't > *have* to believe either Saddam's propaganda or the > Coalition's. Again, the moral equivalence. "Saddam's propaganda or the Coalitions"? You think they're somehow equivalent? You think if I get to go to Iraq I'll be attaching car batteries to people's genitals for my own amusement? That was a routine happening in Saddam's Iraq. Don't insult everyone over there right now by somehow claiming that the two are even vaguely the same. > Thanks to the net, I can actually read > the world's coverage of the events in Iraq > [including things written by Iraqis and the > Americans] and form my own picture of the situation > there. Now, I fail to see why believing that things > aren't perfect atm or that the same could lead to > other, bigger problems makes me an apologist for > Saddam but I'm sure you can explain that charge. In > case I haven't made it clear, I'm asking you to do > the same. > > Ritu Neither of those makes you an apologist for Saddam. Believing that things were _better under Saddam_, or even _no worse under Saddam_ makes you an apologist for Saddam. Dan and I have laid this out quite clearly in other posts, but one more time. Saddam was, by most estimates, killing tens of thousands of innocent people every year. He had hundreds of thousands of political prisoners. He used rape, torture, and mass execution as routine instruments of state policy. Life in Iraq before Saddam's overthrow was a constant fear punctuated by occasional moments of sheer terror. I would recommend Kanan Makiya's _Republic of Fear_ or the work of the Indict project if you doubt any of that. If you think that the situation now is no better than that, than either you believe that the US is doing such things - or you believe that he wasn't. It's that simple. ===== Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
