Yes, the experiment has been rolled back on Stable. Note that users need to restart their browser to get the new config.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 11:22 PM Sudheer Boynapally <sudheerr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Henrik, > > Just want to confirm if this is rolled-back today at 9am PST ? > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 1:59 AM Henrik Boström <h...@google.com> wrote: > >> Hi Anna, yes the experiment is being rolled back to 0% Stable (it's still >> 50% on Canary/Beta though). >> The rollback has already been submitted, but unfortunately we must wait >> for the next config push. I'm told this happens on *Monday, 9AM Pacific >> Time*. Users will need to restart their browser to get the config. >> >> In preparation for the next rollout, I've filed the much needed intent to >> deprecate here: >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/NZVXsJQ7tV8. >> Please provide input on the proposed plans. >> On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:45:00 AM UTC+1 Anna Vasilko wrote: >> >>> Hi Henrik, >>> Just wanted to double check that the latest plan is to revert the >>> experiment, correct? Asking because there was somewhat different comment on >>> the PR here >>> <https://github.com/twilio/twilio-video.js/pull/1970#issuecomment-1404596109> >>> . >>> At Twilio we really hope the experiment can be reverted asap given that >>> it is breaking for our customers and their end users in the wild. The >>> adoption of our new sdk release (with the above PR change) will take long >>> time for most of the customers as they need to 1) learn about the issue 2) >>> pick-up the new sdk version 3) roll out their applications with the new sdk >>> version. For some customers it takes months. >>> Basically the only way to really stop the breaking impact is to stop the >>> experiment and give some notice and time to adopt the changes. >>> >>> I have to acknowledge it took surprisingly long time for us to discover >>> this breaking change and act on it. Holidays probably played a role here. >>> But we will do a retrospective internally to understand the reasons better >>> and to catch such issues sooner in the future. >>> >>> On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 12:57:38 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström wrote: >>> >>>> I'll roll it back and file an intent to deprecate thread. It was a big >>>> mistake that I forgot to do that in the first place, and it's unfortunate >>>> that we have to roll this back. But I take having reached 50% Stable and >>>> only knowing for sure about Twilio as a positive sign (if this was very >>>> widespread we would have heard about it earlier than we did). Still it >>>> seems like Finch is a problem for Selenium test environments in that it's >>>> possible to run test code for several months without noticing a feature is >>>> on. That's a bit sad. >>>> >>>> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:46:19 PM UTC+1 Sudheer Boynapally >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is the experiment rolled back on January 25th ? or it is still at 50% >>>>> stable for M 109? >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:47 AM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It appears this change is causing breakage at scale, including for >>>>>> our partners. >>>>>> >>>>>> Given how this is going, I'd like to suggest the following course of >>>>>> action: >>>>>> >>>>>> - Turn down the Finch rollout to 0% immediately >>>>>> - Revert the change in 111 >>>>>> - File an intent-to-deprecate here ASAP w/ whatever data on >>>>>> compat we can gather (as it looks like usecounters won't work) so we >>>>>> can >>>>>> discuss a new plan to land this >>>>>> >>>>>> We have options that might be more suitable (e.g., reverse OT), or >>>>>> maybe the change just needs devrel in wider channels + time to breathe. >>>>>> Either way, backing off of this rollout seems like the right thing to do. >>>>>> In future, web-visible WebRTC changes also need to come through the main >>>>>> Blink intents process. Let's start down that path now. >>>>>> >>>>>> Curious for other API OWNERs feedback, so cc-ing >>>>>> blink-api-owners-discuss@. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 10:04 PM Henrik Boström <hb...@google.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The track and stream removal experiment is at 50% Stable for M109. >>>>>>> On January 23rd it went from 10% to 50%. The intent is to ramp up to >>>>>>> 100%. >>>>>>> Which experiment group you end up with (have or not have the >>>>>>> deprecated stats) are chosen with a dice roll every time the user >>>>>>> restarts >>>>>>> their browser. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In M111 (which is currently Canary) the removal is >>>>>>> enabled-by-default so in that version there is no dependency on getting >>>>>>> finch configs pushed anymore. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 12:52 AM Sudheer Boynapally < >>>>>>> sudhe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Was there any change on January 23rd corresponding to this? like >>>>>>>> rolling out this deprecation? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 2:57:16 PM UTC-8 Sudheer >>>>>>>> Boynapally wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is the deprecation of 'track' and 'stream' objects completed 100% >>>>>>>>> on all the versions of chrome v109 or any specific sub version of 109? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:56:04 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +Henrik Boström - was there an intent sent for this removal? >>>>>>>>>>> Any form of developer communication? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There was developer communication dating as far back as July but >>>>>>>>>> I admit I had forgotten to send out a formal blink-dev intent to >>>>>>>>>> deprecate! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - I should have done that. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The getStats() API in question is not being deprecated, but the >>>>>>>>>> RTCStatsReport (an id-to-stats-object map) report will stop >>>>>>>>>> containing the >>>>>>>>>> stats object which were made obsolete in the spec several years ago >>>>>>>>>> due to >>>>>>>>>> the contents of these stats objects having been moved to other stats >>>>>>>>>> objects that are still being returned. Same values, different >>>>>>>>>> location. In >>>>>>>>>> other words, the report is being trimmed down by removing duplicate >>>>>>>>>> information. Stats processing code in an application is gated on >>>>>>>>>> stats type >>>>>>>>>> for knowing which metrics to look for on an individual stats object >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> should make this lower risk compared to other depracations. The >>>>>>>>>> motivation >>>>>>>>>> for this is performance optimizations (~40% report size reduction), >>>>>>>>>> technical debt reduction (-1400 LOC) and web compat ("track" >>>>>>>>>> does not exist in Firefox >>>>>>>>>> <https://webrtc-stats.callstats.io/verify/>). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The communication channel used was WebRTC's official google >>>>>>>>>> group, discuss-webrtc >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc>. History: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - July 25, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/lfkFCY2CFco> >>>>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>>>> the plan to deprecate at a milestone TBD. This was also the time >>>>>>>>>> where the >>>>>>>>>> "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added to the JavaScript-exposed stats >>>>>>>>>> object IDs, >>>>>>>>>> which made it into M106. The deprecation prefix is also visible >>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>> chrome://webrtc-internals/ developer page when a page uses WebRTC. >>>>>>>>>> - There was another PSA on September 6, 2022 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/mmudYReualE> about >>>>>>>>>> other stats news with a reminder of the imminent stats >>>>>>>>>> deprecation. >>>>>>>>>> - The October 19, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g> >>>>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>>>> "track" stats being removed at 50% Canary. >>>>>>>>>> - The follow-up October 27, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI> >>>>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>>>> it would also be removed at 50% Beta (where M109 Beta was >>>>>>>>>> released on >>>>>>>>>> December 1st). This PSA also clarifies that "The goal is to >>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>> ramping it up on Stable when M109 is released". >>>>>>>>>> - Lastly we have yesterday's PSA >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/Bxrxr8gw08Y> >>>>>>>>>> announcing >>>>>>>>>> that the removal was advanced to 1% Stable which this >>>>>>>>>> conversation is a >>>>>>>>>> response to. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:42 PM Alex Russell < >>>>>>>>>>> sligh...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for adding blink-dev, Philipp. CC-ing the API OWNERs as >>>>>>>>>>>> this seems related to a pattern of breaking changes without Blink >>>>>>>>>>>> intents >>>>>>>>>>>> that we've been informed of by customers. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do I understand correctly that this deprecation is being >>>>>>>>>>>> managed via Finch for 109 Stable? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, as to minimize risk of breakage the deprecation is managed >>>>>>>>>> via a Finch flag, which is currently 1% Stable + 50% Canary/Beta. >>>>>>>>>> To my knowledge, no issues have been reported since the rollout >>>>>>>>>> started in Canary in November, 2022 or "DEPRECATED_" prefix was >>>>>>>>>> added in >>>>>>>>>> July, 2022. >>>>>>>>>> This, combined with the fact that apps usually gate on type, is >>>>>>>>>> why I thought it would be safe to gently roll out further to Stable. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:34 AM 'Aaron Boushley' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you help me understand exactly which objects are being >>>>>>>>>>> removed here? We rely on `RTCPeerConnection.getStats()` although we >>>>>>>>>>> pass in >>>>>>>>>>> a stream selector. We then iterate over the returned stats reports >>>>>>>>>>> looking >>>>>>>>>>> for ones containing the values we need. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The selector (be it an RTCRtpSender, RTCRtpReceiver or >>>>>>>>>> MediaStreamTrack) continues to work, it's just that the report no >>>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>>>>>> contains the removed stats objects. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is this a removal of the stats objects that have the fixed ID of >>>>>>>>>>> "track" and "stream"? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is the removal of the stats objects where .type == "track" or >>>>>>>>>> .type == "stream". >>>>>>>>>> In the spec this refers to dictionaries RTCMediaStreamTrackStats >>>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamtrackstats> >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> RTCMediaStreamStats >>>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamstats> which >>>>>>>>>> are part of the "Obsolete" section of the spec. See RTCStatsType >>>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#rtcstatstype-str*> for >>>>>>>>>> complete list of stats object types. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regarding the track stats dictionary, the same metrics are still >>>>>>>>>> available, but you have to look at the non-deprecated locations: >>>>>>>>>> RTCOutboundRtpStreamStats >>>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#outboundrtpstats-dict*> and >>>>>>>>>> RTCInboundRtpStreamStats >>>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcinboundrtpstreamstats> >>>>>>>>>> dictionaries >>>>>>>>>> instead (type == "outbound-rtp" and type == "inbound-rtp"). See also >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> type "media-source" referenced from outbound-rtp.mediaSourceId. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is there any more documentation I can look at beyond the 2 >>>>>>>>>>> sentences above? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The spec <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/> as well as the >>>>>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/webrtc/api/stats/rtcstats_objects.h> >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> good resources in general. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Aaron >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:30 AM 'Philipp Hancke' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Henrik, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> while I understand that this has been ongoing for a while in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Canary >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g/m/KG8qe6AEBgAJ> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Beta >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI/m/wbdQr77VBQAJ> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> a while without anyone raising issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the timeline "tomorrow" (with ramp-up) comes as a surprise, in >>>>>>>>>>>>> particular considering practices like code freezes over the >>>>>>>>>>>>> holidays. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you explain why you think you don't need an intent to >>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecate on blink-dev (cc'd)? >>>>>>>>>>>>> (I agree they should go away but don't see a need for such an >>>>>>>>>>>>> aggressive timeline) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Mo., 9. Jan. 2023 um 10:40 Uhr schrieb Henrik Boström < >>>>>>>>>>>>> hb...@webrtc.org>: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the Stable release of M109 tomorrow, the deprecated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "track" and "stream" stats objects returned by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RTCPeerConnection.getStats() >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will no longer be available. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is unshipped at 1% Stable, but it will soon ramp up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> further with the goal of 100% unshipped in M109. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "discuss-webrtc" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to discuss-webrt...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-api-owners" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-api-owne...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Sudheer >>>>> >>>> > > -- > > Thanks, > Sudheer > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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