Am Di., 10. Jan. 2023 um 14:55 Uhr schrieb Henrik Boström <h...@google.com>:
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote:
>
>> +Henrik Boström <h...@google.com> - was there an intent sent for this
>> removal? Any form of developer communication?
>>
>
> There was developer communication dating as far back as July but I admit I
> had forgotten to send out a formal blink-dev intent to deprecate!
>
> - I should have done that.
>
> The getStats() API in question is not being deprecated, but the
> RTCStatsReport (an id-to-stats-object map) report will stop containing the
> stats object which were made obsolete in the spec several years ago due to
> the contents of these stats objects having been moved to other stats
> objects that are still being returned. Same values, different location. In
> other words, the report is being trimmed down by removing duplicate
> information. Stats processing code in an application is gated on stats type
> for knowing which metrics to look for on an individual stats object which
> should make this lower risk compared to other depracations. The motivation
> for this is performance optimizations (~40% report size reduction),
> technical debt reduction (-1400 LOC) and web compat ("track" does not
> exist in Firefox <https://webrtc-stats.callstats.io/verify/>).
>
This apparently breaks users of Twilio's Video SDK:
https://github.com/twilio/twilio-video.js/issues/1968#issuecomment-1404316610
WRT web-compat thanks for pointing out to Safari that they missed adding at
least trackIdentifier <https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=250450> to
inbound-rtp.
The communication channel used was WebRTC's official google group,
> discuss-webrtc <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc>. History:
>
Given the moderation status of discuss-webrtc that qualifies as a disused
lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.” :-)
I am in favor of using that list as much as possible in terms of process
since it is still read by some "WebRTC developers" but I do not think this
is a substitute for talking to developers using WebRTC.
> - July 25, 2022 PSA
> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/lfkFCY2CFco> announced
> the plan to deprecate at a milestone TBD. This was also the time where the
> "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added to the JavaScript-exposed stats object IDs,
> which made it into M106. The deprecation prefix is also visible in the
> chrome://webrtc-internals/ developer page when a page uses WebRTC.
> - There was another PSA on September 6, 2022
> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/mmudYReualE> about other
> stats news with a reminder of the imminent stats deprecation.
> - The October 19, 2022 PSA
> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g> announced
> "track" stats being removed at 50% Canary.
> - The follow-up October 27, 2022 PSA
> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI> announced
> it would also be removed at 50% Beta (where M109 Beta was released on
> December 1st). This PSA also clarifies that "The goal is to continue
> ramping it up on Stable when M109 is released".
>
> Oh I missed that that the goal was stated there too -- otherwise we would
have the "it is a bad idea to do this during a time of code freezes"
discussion back then.
>
> - Lastly we have yesterday's PSA
> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/Bxrxr8gw08Y> announcing
> that the removal was advanced to 1% Stable which this conversation is a
> response to.
>
>
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:42 PM Alex Russell <slightly...@chromium.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for adding blink-dev, Philipp. CC-ing the API OWNERs as this
>>> seems related to a pattern of breaking changes without Blink intents that
>>> we've been informed of by customers.
>>>
>>> Do I understand correctly that this deprecation is being managed via
>>> Finch for 109 Stable?
>>>
>>
> Yes, as to minimize risk of breakage the deprecation is managed via a
> Finch flag, which is currently 1% Stable + 50% Canary/Beta.
> To my knowledge, no issues have been reported since the rollout started in
> Canary in November, 2022 or "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added in July, 2022.
> This, combined with the fact that apps usually gate on type, is why I
> thought it would be safe to gently roll out further to Stable.
>
Rolling out the removal via finch as opt-in has quite nasty implications
for CI testing that might(*) be in place, no?
Selenium et al typically starts browsers from fresh profiles and hence does
not know the finch trial seed? (**)
I haven't seen documentation showing how CI should pre-seed the profiles
used with the finch trial seed (and for deprecations it might be better to
recommended a command line for the CI).
I'm still in favor of the removal but removing by default (possibly guarded
by a killswitch) seems like a less error-prone process.
Philipp
(*) I am somewhat pessimistic about the actual state of the "webrtc
industry" wrt to automated tests
(**) at least that was my conclusion from a post-mortem of the VP8 temporal
layer reduction
<https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/N1sMEBJhOz4/m/r9BJbhYEBgAJ> that
is, in what must be the longest "trial" ever, still ongoing?
>
>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:34 AM 'Aaron Boushley' via blink-dev <
> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote:
>
>> Can you help me understand exactly which objects are being removed here?
>> We rely on `RTCPeerConnection.getStats()` although we pass in a stream
>> selector. We then iterate over the returned stats reports looking for ones
>> containing the values we need.
>>
>
> The selector (be it an RTCRtpSender, RTCRtpReceiver or MediaStreamTrack)
> continues to work, it's just that the report no longer contains the removed
> stats objects.
>
>
>>
>> Is this a removal of the stats objects that have the fixed ID of "track"
>> and "stream"?
>>
>
> It is the removal of the stats objects where .type == "track" or .type ==
> "stream".
> In the spec this refers to dictionaries RTCMediaStreamTrackStats
> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamtrackstats> and
> RTCMediaStreamStats
> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamstats> which are
> part of the "Obsolete" section of the spec. See RTCStatsType
> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#rtcstatstype-str*> for complete list
> of stats object types.
>
> Regarding the track stats dictionary, the same metrics are still
> available, but you have to look at the non-deprecated locations:
> RTCOutboundRtpStreamStats
> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#outboundrtpstats-dict*> and
> RTCInboundRtpStreamStats
> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcinboundrtpstreamstats>
> dictionaries
> instead (type == "outbound-rtp" and type == "inbound-rtp"). See also the
> type "media-source" referenced from outbound-rtp.mediaSourceId.
>
>
>> Is there any more documentation I can look at beyond the 2 sentences
>> above?
>>
>
> The spec <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/> as well as the
> implementation
> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/webrtc/api/stats/rtcstats_objects.h>
> are
> good resources in general.
>
>
>>
>> Aaron
>>
>>
>
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:30 AM 'Philipp Hancke' via blink-dev <
>>> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Henrik,
>>>>
>>>> while I understand that this has been ongoing for a while in Canary
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g/m/KG8qe6AEBgAJ>
>>>> and Beta
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI/m/wbdQr77VBQAJ>
>>>> for
>>>> a while without anyone raising issues,
>>>> the timeline "tomorrow" (with ramp-up) comes as a surprise, in
>>>> particular considering practices like code freezes over the holidays.
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain why you think you don't need an intent to deprecate on
>>>> blink-dev (cc'd)?
>>>> (I agree they should go away but don't see a need for such an
>>>> aggressive timeline)
>>>>
>>>> Am Mo., 9. Jan. 2023 um 10:40 Uhr schrieb Henrik Boström <
>>>> h...@webrtc.org>:
>>>>
>>>>> With the Stable release of M109 tomorrow, the deprecated "track" and
>>>>> "stream" stats objects returned by RTCPeerConnection.getStats() will no
>>>>> longer be available.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is unshipped at 1% Stable, but it will soon ramp up further with
>>>>> the goal of 100% unshipped in M109.
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> .
>>>>>
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