It appears this change is causing breakage at scale, including for our
partners.
Given how this is going, I'd like to suggest the following course of action:
- Turn down the Finch rollout to 0% immediately
- Revert the change in 111
- File an intent-to-deprecate here ASAP w/ whatever data on compat we
can gather (as it looks like usecounters won't work) so we can discuss a
new plan to land this
We have options that might be more suitable (e.g., reverse OT), or maybe
the change just needs devrel in wider channels + time to breathe. Either
way, backing off of this rollout seems like the right thing to do. In
future, web-visible WebRTC changes also need to come through the main Blink
intents process. Let's start down that path now.
Curious for other API OWNERs feedback, so cc-ing blink-api-owners-discuss@.
Best,
Alex
On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 10:04 PM Henrik Boström <h...@google.com> wrote:
> The track and stream removal experiment is at 50% Stable for M109. On
> January 23rd it went from 10% to 50%. The intent is to ramp up to 100%.
> Which experiment group you end up with (have or not have the deprecated
> stats) are chosen with a dice roll every time the user restarts their
> browser.
>
> In M111 (which is currently Canary) the removal is enabled-by-default so
> in that version there is no dependency on getting finch configs pushed
> anymore.
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 12:52 AM Sudheer Boynapally <sudheerr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Was there any change on January 23rd corresponding to this? like rolling
>> out this deprecation?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 2:57:16 PM UTC-8 Sudheer Boynapally
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Is the deprecation of 'track' and 'stream' objects completed 100% on all
>>> the versions of chrome v109 or any specific sub version of 109?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:56:04 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@chromium.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +Henrik Boström - was there an intent sent for this removal? Any form
>>>>> of developer communication?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There was developer communication dating as far back as July but I
>>>> admit I had forgotten to send out a formal blink-dev intent to deprecate!
>>>>
>>>> - I should have done that.
>>>>
>>>> The getStats() API in question is not being deprecated, but the
>>>> RTCStatsReport (an id-to-stats-object map) report will stop containing the
>>>> stats object which were made obsolete in the spec several years ago due to
>>>> the contents of these stats objects having been moved to other stats
>>>> objects that are still being returned. Same values, different location. In
>>>> other words, the report is being trimmed down by removing duplicate
>>>> information. Stats processing code in an application is gated on stats type
>>>> for knowing which metrics to look for on an individual stats object which
>>>> should make this lower risk compared to other depracations. The motivation
>>>> for this is performance optimizations (~40% report size reduction),
>>>> technical debt reduction (-1400 LOC) and web compat ("track" does not
>>>> exist in Firefox <https://webrtc-stats.callstats.io/verify/>).
>>>>
>>>> The communication channel used was WebRTC's official google group,
>>>> discuss-webrtc <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc>. History:
>>>>
>>>> - July 25, 2022 PSA
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/lfkFCY2CFco> announced
>>>> the plan to deprecate at a milestone TBD. This was also the time where
>>>> the
>>>> "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added to the JavaScript-exposed stats object
>>>> IDs,
>>>> which made it into M106. The deprecation prefix is also visible in the
>>>> chrome://webrtc-internals/ developer page when a page uses WebRTC.
>>>> - There was another PSA on September 6, 2022
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/mmudYReualE> about
>>>> other stats news with a reminder of the imminent stats deprecation.
>>>> - The October 19, 2022 PSA
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g> announced
>>>> "track" stats being removed at 50% Canary.
>>>> - The follow-up October 27, 2022 PSA
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI> announced
>>>> it would also be removed at 50% Beta (where M109 Beta was released on
>>>> December 1st). This PSA also clarifies that "The goal is to continue
>>>> ramping it up on Stable when M109 is released".
>>>> - Lastly we have yesterday's PSA
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/Bxrxr8gw08Y> announcing
>>>> that the removal was advanced to 1% Stable which this conversation is a
>>>> response to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:42 PM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for adding blink-dev, Philipp. CC-ing the API OWNERs as this
>>>>>> seems related to a pattern of breaking changes without Blink intents that
>>>>>> we've been informed of by customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do I understand correctly that this deprecation is being managed via
>>>>>> Finch for 109 Stable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, as to minimize risk of breakage the deprecation is managed via a
>>>> Finch flag, which is currently 1% Stable + 50% Canary/Beta.
>>>> To my knowledge, no issues have been reported since the rollout started
>>>> in Canary in November, 2022 or "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added in July,
>>>> 2022.
>>>> This, combined with the fact that apps usually gate on type, is why I
>>>> thought it would be safe to gently roll out further to Stable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:34 AM 'Aaron Boushley' via blink-dev <
>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you help me understand exactly which objects are being removed
>>>>> here? We rely on `RTCPeerConnection.getStats()` although we pass in a
>>>>> stream selector. We then iterate over the returned stats reports looking
>>>>> for ones containing the values we need.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The selector (be it an RTCRtpSender, RTCRtpReceiver or
>>>> MediaStreamTrack) continues to work, it's just that the report no longer
>>>> contains the removed stats objects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this a removal of the stats objects that have the fixed ID of
>>>>> "track" and "stream"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is the removal of the stats objects where .type == "track" or .type
>>>> == "stream".
>>>> In the spec this refers to dictionaries RTCMediaStreamTrackStats
>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamtrackstats> and
>>>> RTCMediaStreamStats
>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamstats> which
>>>> are part of the "Obsolete" section of the spec. See RTCStatsType
>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#rtcstatstype-str*> for complete
>>>> list of stats object types.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the track stats dictionary, the same metrics are still
>>>> available, but you have to look at the non-deprecated locations:
>>>> RTCOutboundRtpStreamStats
>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#outboundrtpstats-dict*> and
>>>> RTCInboundRtpStreamStats
>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcinboundrtpstreamstats>
>>>> dictionaries
>>>> instead (type == "outbound-rtp" and type == "inbound-rtp"). See also the
>>>> type "media-source" referenced from outbound-rtp.mediaSourceId.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Is there any more documentation I can look at beyond the 2 sentences
>>>>> above?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The spec <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/> as well as the
>>>> implementation
>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/webrtc/api/stats/rtcstats_objects.h>
>>>> are
>>>> good resources in general.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Aaron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:30 AM 'Philipp Hancke' via blink-dev <
>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Henrik,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> while I understand that this has been ongoing for a while in Canary
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g/m/KG8qe6AEBgAJ>
>>>>>>> and Beta
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI/m/wbdQr77VBQAJ>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> a while without anyone raising issues,
>>>>>>> the timeline "tomorrow" (with ramp-up) comes as a surprise, in
>>>>>>> particular considering practices like code freezes over the holidays.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you explain why you think you don't need an intent to deprecate
>>>>>>> on blink-dev (cc'd)?
>>>>>>> (I agree they should go away but don't see a need for such an
>>>>>>> aggressive timeline)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am Mo., 9. Jan. 2023 um 10:40 Uhr schrieb Henrik Boström <
>>>>>>> hb...@webrtc.org>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the Stable release of M109 tomorrow, the deprecated "track"
>>>>>>>> and "stream" stats objects returned by RTCPeerConnection.getStats()
>>>>>>>> will no
>>>>>>>> longer be available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is unshipped at 1% Stable, but it will soon ramp up further
>>>>>>>> with the goal of 100% unshipped in M109.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>> send an email to discuss-webrt...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to blink-api-owne...@chromium.org.
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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