On Thu 30/Nov/2023 12:40:46 +0100 Laura Atkins wrote:
What happens if / when someone doesn’t?
A minimal, yet useful reaction would be to remove their abuse PoC from RDAP
pages. If the convention is clear that network operators without abuse-c are
non-responders, it is easy for all the others to add the corresponding IPs to
their drop lists. Ripe NCC could even distribute non-responders lists.
A motion to reclaim wasted resources can be set up at a later time.
Best
Ale
On 30 Nov 2023, at 10:47, Matthias Merkel <matthias.mer...@staclar.com> wrote:
The proposal is to send verification emails to abuse mailboxes and have a
link in them clicked, right? I would have no objection to that.
Is there more that is being proposed in this proposal specifically?
—
Maria Merkel
This email was sent by [company]. Any statements contained in this email are
personal to the author and are not necessarily the statements of the company
unless specifically stated.
Novecore and Staclar are collective trading names of Novecore Ltd.,
registered in England and Wales under company number 11748197, Novecore
Licensing Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number
11544982, Staclar Carrier Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company
number 12219686, Staclar Financial Services Ltd., registered in England and
Wales under company number 13843292 (registered offices 54 Portland Place,
London, UK, W1B 1DY); Novecore Professional Services Ltd., registered in
England and Wales under company number 13965912 (registered office 13
Freeland Park, Wareham Road, Poole, UK, BH16 6FA); Novecore (Estonia) OÜ,
registered in Estonia under registry code 16543205 (local contact Baltic
Business Services OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia); Novecore (USA)
Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 6707907, Novecore Licensing
(USA) LLC, registered in Delaware under file number 4030866, and Staclar,
Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 7413401 (registered agents The
Corporation Trust Company, Corporation Trust Center, 1209 Orange St,
Wilmington DE 19801, USA). Novecore Licensing Ltd. is registered for VAT in
the United Kingdom under VAT registration number 347 4545 80. Novecore
(Estonia) OÜ is registered for VAT in the European Union under VAT
registration number EE102518979. Novecore Professional Services Ltd. is a
trust or company service provider registered with and supervised by HM
Revenue & Customs under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and
Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (registration
number XMML00000178208). Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is an Annex 1
financial institution registered with and supervised by the Financial Conduct
Authority under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of
Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (firm reference number
989521). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation and is not an
endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is
not an authorised person within the meaning of the Financial Services and
Markets Act 2000 and does not review, approve, or endorse financial
promotions for securities issues it is involved in or provide any form of
investment advice.
Sent from Front
On November 30, 2023 at 11:45 AM GMT+1 ops.li...@gmail.com
<mailto:ops.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
There is somewhat more being proposed than that bare minimum of due
diligence but none of this makes ripe ncc a regulator any more than a
pharmacist verifying a prescription becomes the FDA
--srs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Matthias Merkel <matthias.mer...@staclar.com
<mailto:matthias.mer...@staclar.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2023 4:03:07 PM
*To:* Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.li...@gmail.com
<mailto:ops.li...@gmail.com>>; Leo Vegoda <l...@vegoda.org
<mailto:l...@vegoda.org>>
*Cc:* anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
<anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>>
*Subject:* Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Report ignored. What to do as next?
I have already noted that I have no objections to a proposal solely to
verify abuse mailbox functionality, but that we should be careful adding
anything further. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in this:
Arguably a proposal to simply require verification of the abuse mailbox
does not make the NCC a regulator (and, in fact, I think the NCC already
does this with ASNs), but I do not see how this would be an effective
measure.
Making further requirements would make the NCC a regulator, and this may
be dangerous precedent.
Regarding the potential that government regulators will put rules in place
if we don't, I don't think this is a big concern here. Many governments
already do have those rules and already supervise network operators in their
countries. The issue in this specific case is that some countries simply
don't care, and do not have laws or regulations around the issue.
—
Maria Merkel
This email was sent by [company]. Any statements contained in this email are
personal to the author and are not necessarily the statements of the company
unless specifically stated.
Novecore and Staclar are collective trading names of Novecore Ltd.,
registered in England and Wales under company number 11748197, Novecore
Licensing Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number
11544982, Staclar Carrier Ltd., registered in England and Wales under
company number 12219686, Staclar Financial Services Ltd., registered in
England and Wales under company number 13843292 (registered offices 54
Portland Place, London, UK, W1B 1DY); Novecore Professional Services Ltd.,
registered in England and Wales under company number 13965912 (registered
office 13 Freeland Park, Wareham Road, Poole, UK, BH16 6FA); Novecore
(Estonia) OÜ, registered in Estonia under registry code 16543205 (local
contact Baltic Business Services OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia);
Novecore (USA) Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 6707907,
Novecore Licensing (USA) LLC, registered in Delaware under file number
4030866, and Staclar, Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 7413401
(registered agents The Corporation Trust Company, Corporation Trust Center,
1209 Orange St, Wilmington DE 19801, USA). Novecore Licensing Ltd. is
registered for VAT in the United Kingdom under VAT registration number 347
4545 80. Novecore (Estonia) OÜ is registered for VAT in the European Union
under VAT registration number EE102518979. Novecore Professional Services
Ltd. is a trust or company service provider registered with and supervised
by HM Revenue & Customs under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and
Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (registration
number XMML00000178208). Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is an Annex 1
financial institution registered with and supervised by the Financial
Conduct Authority under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and
Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (firm
reference number 989521). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation
and is not an endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial
Services Ltd. is not an authorised person within the meaning of the
Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and does not review, approve, or
endorse financial promotions for securities issues it is involved in or
provide any form of investment advice.
Sent from Front
On November 30, 2023 at 11:25 AM GMT+1 ops.li...@gmail.com
<mailto:ops.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is simply an ongoing verification that the justification and other
paperwork which were used to allocate the numbers are reasonable and correct
Consensus tends to work in strange ways - and room packing isn’t unknown if
you see the example I cited
--srs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-boun...@ripe.net
<mailto:anti-abuse-wg-boun...@ripe.net>> on behalf of Matthias Merkel
<matthias.mer...@staclar.com <mailto:matthias.mer...@staclar.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2023 3:24:02 PM
*To:* Leo Vegoda <l...@vegoda.org <mailto:l...@vegoda.org>>; Suresh
Ramasubramanian <ops.li...@gmail.com <mailto:ops.li...@gmail.com>>
*Cc:* anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
<anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>>
*Subject:* Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Report ignored. What to do as next?
Of course, this is not how consensus works.
I also think you're misunderstanding my argument. I'm all for fighting
abuse. A lot of my work is in abuse and fraud prevention and in the
prevention of financial crime. I'm not arguing against preventing abuse,
only against adding even more regulators where they aren't needed.
The Gmail example still does not address my concern. They say what you can
do with Gmail, which is the service. An IP address itself is not an
abusable service, the systems addressed by them are. Gmail doesn't tell you
what to do on third party services you sign up to with your gmail.com
<http://gmail.com/> address. Google is responsible for Gmail. The RIPE NCC
is responsible for the IP addresses. The network operator is responsible
for the systems.
—
Maria Merkel
This email was sent by [company]. Any statements contained in this email
are personal to the author and are not necessarily the statements of the
company unless specifically stated.
Novecore and Staclar are collective trading names of Novecore Ltd.,
registered in England and Wales under company number 11748197, Novecore
Licensing Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number
11544982, Staclar Carrier Ltd., registered in England and Wales under
company number 12219686, Staclar Financial Services Ltd., registered in
England and Wales under company number 13843292 (registered offices 54
Portland Place, London, UK, W1B 1DY); Novecore Professional Services Ltd.,
registered in England and Wales under company number 13965912 (registered
office 13 Freeland Park, Wareham Road, Poole, UK, BH16 6FA); Novecore
(Estonia) OÜ, registered in Estonia under registry code 16543205 (local
contact Baltic Business Services OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia);
Novecore (USA) Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 6707907,
Novecore Licensing (USA) LLC, registered in Delaware under file number
4030866, and Staclar, Inc., registered in Delaware under file number
7413401 (registered agents The Corporation Trust Company, Corporation Trust
Center, 1209 Orange St, Wilmington DE 19801, USA). Novecore Licensing Ltd.
is registered for VAT in the United Kingdom under VAT registration number
347 4545 80. Novecore (Estonia) OÜ is registered for VAT in the European
Union under VAT registration number EE102518979. Novecore Professional
Services Ltd. is a trust or company service provider registered with and
supervised by HM Revenue & Customs under the Money Laundering, Terrorist
Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017
(registration number XMML00000178208). Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is
an Annex 1 financial institution registered with and supervised by the
Financial Conduct Authority under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing
and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (firm
reference number 989521). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation
and is not an endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial
Services Ltd. is not an authorised person within the meaning of the
Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and does not review, approve, or
endorse financial promotions for securities issues it is involved in or
provide any form of investment advice.
Sent from Front
On November 30, 2023 at 10:48 AM GMT+1 l...@vegoda.org
<mailto:l...@vegoda.org> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 10:44, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<ops.li...@gmail.com <mailto:ops.li...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> The funny part is that the abuse teams of the very same companies will
be out there in other conferences working earnestly and well on best
practices. If they were to turn up at a ripe meeting and provide
consensus ..
>
> And before you accuse me of packing the room to generate artificial
consensus
Consensus isn't a numbers thing. I think you've misunderstood the process.
Regards,
Leo
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The Delivery Expert
Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com
Delivery hints and commentary: http://wordtothewise.com/blog
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