That was true for me in the 80's-90's and then I decided to fix that by
taking a job I stayed at for 4 years. That ruined all my applications in
Silicon Valley for the next 5 years. Everyone then decided that I
wasn't hot material because I stayed at a regular company instead of a
rocketship. They understood companies failing and going for another job
but not staying at a "normal" tech company. But interestingly 5 years
later many of the people I knew at that normal company were at startups
and reached out for me to recruiters. It was the 5 year gap that
killed my paylevels. Sometimes you just can't win. Luckily one of
those recommended me to Netscape.
On 9/16/24 9:52 AM, Zach Underwood wrote:
For the first 12 years of my working experience I found that if I
worked some place for more than 2 years I was being underpaid. If I
stayed at the role I would be 1-3% pay raise, if I changed jobs I
would get 20-50%. That has slowed down some as I have moved up the pay
scale.
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
We've had a bunch of that too. For some reason, a lot of people in
teach think that you're doing it wrong if you don't hop every 2 -
3 years. Silicon Valley kind of sets some of this with their stock
vetting and lack of meaningful raises later.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, September 16, 2024 11:34:06 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Problem employees
Ken, we have an open position currently and I'd say 90% of the
resumes that come thru have what I would consider a garbage work
history. Random assortment of unrelated job roles, most for less
than a year. Clearly no attempt or success at anything resembling
a "career". I guess this is just normal now?
On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 11:57 AM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com> wrote:
Based on Internet posts, one thing Gen XYZ seems to understand
is that a PIP (performance improvement plan) or CAP
(corrective action plan) basically means you’re getting fired
and should start your job search now. They don’t take it as a
wake up call to improve.
Over the past decade or two, loyalty and trust between
employers and employees seems to have mutually gone to zero.
The idea of a “career” or working at the same place for years
is gone, and both sides blame the other. Big corporations
that regularly overhire and then lay off to appease
shareholders don’t help. Yet billionaire owners like Musk
expect “extreme hardcore” effort from employees who sleep on
the floor. Seems like local small businesses and family owned
businesses are collateral damage in all this. Younger workers
learn from their reddits and tiktoks that they are expendable
and so they owe no loyalty or hard work to their job.
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of
*ch...@go-mtc.com
*Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2024 10:29 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Problem employees
We do write them up. But a bit of a harsh ass chewing seems
to yield much better results much quicker than gentle feed
back, mentoring, multiple reviews etc.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>
*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com
*Sent:*Monday, September 16, 2024 9:04 AM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Problem employees
I read a book that was about cultivating a high performance
team. Bottom line was similar to the seminar you mention, but
slightly different.
The short version is set expectations clearly, have regular
reviews, and make it clear when expectations are not being
met. After a few bad reviews the most likely outcomes are
that they improve or they find another job and go away on
their own. If they don’t do either one then you have
documentation of these reviews and you can drop them without
fear of any unfounded accusations.
-Adam
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of
*ch...@go-mtc.com
*Sent:* Saturday, September 14, 2024 4:22 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Problem employees
I many years ago I went to a skilpath seminar on what to do
with problem employees. After two days the bottom line was
that you probably will not change them, learn to live with
them or fire them.
So for a number of years I gave them gentle performance
reviews, some respectful feedback and then fired the ones the
did not perform. There was some positive outcomes. We
frequently could find someone better for the position. I used
to say that I have never regretted firing anyone and almost
always realized that I should have done it long ago. And I
have remarked that part of our success is that we did fire
people. I still believe that is true and is good advice.
But in the past few years I have changed my view and tactic a
little bit. I got tired of performance reviews, coaching,
coddling, firing etc. I just started chewing ass. Not to
the point that I created permanent psychic damage, but
certainly some temporary psychic damage. One gen Z kid told me
the next day that he was OK, had a cry in his car but he is
now OK. And he is now OK, good performer.
I decided I did not want to waste the training I invested.
And that if they could survive the ass chewing and learn from
it, I ended up overall in a better situation and they did too.
So far I haven’t fired anyone since starting this I don’t
think. One guy is on thin ice but he only got his ass chewing
on Thursday. We will see if can pull it out.
Sick of coddling Gen Z.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
advance-networking.com <http://advance-networking.com>
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