SASJ On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 4:54 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
> Are you using double or triple armor cable? > > *From:* Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 1:43 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > We are something like 80% direct bury. We pay for it ourselves. There > are use cases for both. > > Our repair kit is: two handholes, a little bit of fiber, and a pair of > splice cases. Like $1000. This is much cheaper than say $1/foot pipe for > a million feet (which of course does not guarantee you will not have > damage). > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 2:11 PM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com> wrote: > >> We’ve had a lot of fiber installs in the ROW around here (including for a >> Meta datacenter), almost all buried, combination of directional boring and >> trenching but I haven’t seen anyone doing direct burial. It’s all in >> conduit. One county it’s something like 4 inch and I was told the county >> requires that size. Not sure if conduit and handholes and blown fiber are >> just the preferred method of construction to make repairs easier, or if >> it’s a govt requirement to bury stuff in the ROW. >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:47 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> >Sometimes just one strand >> >> That sucks! >> >> >> >> So you have a HH every 20k/40k feet with the butt splice? Nothing in >> between? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 1:42 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Gophers will kill one fiber at a time. Sometimes just one strand, >> sometimes they will eat through the whole cable. Steel armor and all. >> >> >> >> Direct bury across the desert, there is no advantage to hand holes. >> Since you are not blowing you cannot install slack loops. So the HH is at >> the splice point. When you have damage you dig it back and install two HH >> with slack loops. >> >> >> >> I don’t build direct bury any more. But some do. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:20 AM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> When the gophers hit, do they get the entire cable or just a healthy bite >> of the cable. I'm wondering if you could somehow see the strength of a >> tone down the armor? >> >> >> How far apart are your HH? We try to keep it 1320 or 2640 feet at most >> but we are doing FTTH. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 1:17 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, if it is a strike you don’t even need the OTDR. Just drive the >> route and stop where they are digging. >> >> Sometimes splices go bad and normally the OTDR indicates a distance very >> close to a splice point so that is easy too. >> >> >> >> Gophers, never easy. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Ken Hohhof >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:06 AM >> >> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> Sounds like gophers are a lot worse than somebody digging in the wrong >> spot, because once you are close you can just look for the above ground >> evidence like a hole or an excavator with yellow vest people standing >> around. >> >> >> >> What were the critters than Bill Murray was at war with in Caddyshack, >> were those gophers? Dumb movie, but iconic I guess. >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:43 AM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> Index of refraction (IOR) differs from reel to reel. If you need >> accurate distance measurements you have to enter a precise index of >> refraction, and the IOR can vary with distance as well. >> >> >> >> The internal timebase drifts. Clock errors and stability cause accuracy >> issues. >> >> >> >> Pulse width and sample interval adds precision errors. Longer distances >> need wider pulses so you lose precision. >> >> So with a loss of both precision and accuracy that is proportional to >> distances being shot, you are never going to walk right up and dig up the >> correct spot. >> >> >> >> Bottom line, long cables, gopher faults, you will spend lots of time >> digging along the line to find it. >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 10:22 AM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> 1.01x >> >> >> >> 20,300 foot cable reel is 20,500 of glass >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 9:01 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> That and fiber distance is not equal to cable distance because of the >> twist built into the buffer tubes. >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 5:05 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> Good point, with direct bury the sequentials are frequently rubbed off. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* castarritt >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 2:42 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> Yeah, with direct bury and no handhole for miles, you are in a tough >> spot. If the footage marker on the cable you dig up is still there, you >> could go off that instead of guessing or cutting. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 2:58 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> When you are out in the desert tracking direct bury fiber, only handholes >> are splice points.... good luck. >> >> If the closest hand hole is 2 miles away from the area of the fault, good >> luck. You will wheel it off, read the sequential, then wheel it off again, >> dig again. Not find the damage. Then you have the choice to cut and shoot >> it again or just start exposing cable. Flip a coin to choose which way to >> start digging and start digging. Have dug for hundreds of feed looking for >> damage and sometimes it is very hard to see. Sometimes a gopher will just >> eat into the side of a cable a little bit. >> >> >> >> You can strip it and have someone put a visible light on it if you are >> not too far away for that to work. That can tell you if you are on the CO >> side of the fault. There are also those bendy fiber detectors that can >> help with that too. Hopefully you find it close enough that you can put a >> handhole near where you stripped it. Always takes two handholes or peds >> to fix. And LOTS of digging. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* castarritt >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:49 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> Shouldn't you be able to look at the distance to fault from the last >> splice, look up the cable footage marker going into that splice closure (go >> check it if you didn't document that when it was built), check footage >> marker at closest handhole, and then wheel it off from there? >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 2:42 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> So on a 15 mile shot with a problem somewhere in the middle, you think >> you can wheel it off and dig it up and find it? >> >> One shot, from the end. Walk right to the problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:07 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> That hasn't been my experience, but at the same time we're not 25 mile >> shots - it's maybe 15 max. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 11:43 AM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> I also use EXFOs and they will read to the meter, but if you have a fiber >> cut out 25 miles, I will bet good money that when you dig up the spot where >> your OTDR says the fault is, you will be off by 100 feet or more if you did >> not do a test from the nearest splice point. In reality it will be off by >> thousands of feet. >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> Chuck McCown >> >> McCown Technology Corporation >> 8401 N Commerce Dr >> Lake Point, Utah 84074 >> 801-250-9503 Office >> 435-830-4306 Cell >> www.mccowntech.com >> www.microtrench.pro >> www.terabitnetworks.com >> >> >> >> *From:* Ryan Ray >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 9:58 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> We use EXFO otdr's on some spans that are 160km and we can get it down to >> the metre. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 7:07 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >> wrote: >> >> Don't you document where your splices are? If you see your splices every >> 33k and see it's broken 1 mile from the last splice it should be pretty >> obvious, no? >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 6:26 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Magical device called a fusion splicer. Our reels were typically 33,000’ >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:51 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> I don't see how you have a 50 mile span. Even if you get 80k reels >> that's 15 miles. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:19 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> When you have spans up to 50-75 miles at times, you have to use longer >> high power pulses. There is a lot of variability in velocity of >> propagation, earth temperature, splice slack loops, fiber twist. 1 mile >> error over 50 miles is only 2%. You can easily be off by several thousand >> feet. You can’t just go dig. You have to go to the closest splice point >> and test again, even then if you it show the fault 2000 feet away and you >> dig at 2000 feet you may be off by 20 feet or more. I have been doing this >> for decades. Takes lots of digging to actually find it. >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:01 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> A mile?! IDK how that's possible. Every time we turn a new splitter on >> the sequentials and OTDR are within a few feet - we lose a couple of feet >> in butt splices and our sequentials end up wrong. Every new reel gets >> tested on delivery and it's right on. >> >> >> >> When we had a broken fiber (ants) it was right on the case. When we had >> a broken fiber (ribbon got knicked with installation) it was between two >> cases. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 3:48 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Wow, sometimes looking for gopher damager over 20 miles I have been off a >> mile. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 1:30 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> So far every time we've used the OTDR it's been accurate within 1 foot. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 12:55 PM Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote: >> >> The only thing you have to worry about with shorter cables is the >> reflection. In some instances with dirty connector at just the right >> connector you can get reflection back in to the transmitter that can cause >> errors, the tx to shut down or premature failure. This is very uncommon >> with LR 10G and less optics and can be prevented from making sure you have >> clean connectors. Check the RX and TX levels and make sure you don't have >> excessive loss. With 100G its a little different story due to the combined >> power of multiple channels, but still can be prevented by cleaning >> connectors, but in some instances Ive had to use attenuation when mixing >> different vendor optics. >> >> The using no launch on an OTDR most automatically calibrating OTDRs will >> work without one. Your results can be off though. Most of the lower cost >> ones are also lower powered and have less of an RX sensitivity so they >> don't suffer as much from the reflections interfering when testing. I can >> test all day long with my little otdrs without one, but my long range 200k+ >> units I have to have a minimum of a 1k spool on it or you see ghosts. They >> will show up as repeating events at even intervals. Not something you will >> see on shorter runs either. >> >> >> >> On 8/26/24 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> >> I should note that apparently I used to do this with direct attach cables >> (DAC) but I think that was a pain, one more thing to stock and to bring >> with for projects. Whereas I’d always have boxes full of SFPs and fiber >> patch cords. >> >> >> >> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman >> *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2024 4:20 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> People say you need a launch cable but our cheap china OTDRs have no >> issues seeing the connector at the end of the patch cable and stuff >> beyond. I bought a big launch cable back in the day and never use it >> anymore. >> >> >> >> Might be different with AE? >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 5:16 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Only minimum length I know of is the OTDR dead zone. If that is a >> problem you purposely lengthen the cable with a launch cable. >> >> >> >> *From:* Josh Luthman >> >> *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2024 1:59 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables >> >> >> >> Reddit is wrong. Gasp. >> >> >> >> Connectors are loss, there is more loss in either one of the connectors >> than there is the single mode glass. >> >> >> >> Between a switch/router in a rack what I see all the time is long (like >> 5/10/15 feet) cables and then put the slack in a loop along the posts. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 1:19 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: >> >> Patchbox makes some great products, their fiber system is pretty slick >> but expensive. >> >> >> >> Cable length is irrelevant it's optical budget / Rx signal strength. >> Normally on 2-20k LR optics you are ok with any length cable, 40km+ needs a >> pad on short spans. (Attenuator) >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2024, 8:29 AM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com> wrote: >> >> Is there a minimum length for a single mode fiber patch cable? >> >> >> >> I have been using 1 meter cables and they are almost always too long, I’m >> talking about going between routers and switches in a rack, stuff like >> that. I see that FS sells 0.5 meter cables, but I saw somewhere like maybe >> on Reddit someone claiming there was a minimum length. Given SM fiber and >> LR optics, I don’t see how 0.5 or 1.0 meter would be different they are >> both essentially zero length. >> >> >> >> Probably there’s some kind of cable tray or cable management solution I >> could be using but I’ve never liked such things. >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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