We are something like 80% direct bury. We pay for it ourselves. There are use cases for both.
Our repair kit is: two handholes, a little bit of fiber, and a pair of splice cases. Like $1000. This is much cheaper than say $1/foot pipe for a million feet (which of course does not guarantee you will not have damage). On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 2:11 PM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com> wrote: > We’ve had a lot of fiber installs in the ROW around here (including for a > Meta datacenter), almost all buried, combination of directional boring and > trenching but I haven’t seen anyone doing direct burial. It’s all in > conduit. One county it’s something like 4 inch and I was told the county > requires that size. Not sure if conduit and handholes and blown fiber are > just the preferred method of construction to make repairs easier, or if > it’s a govt requirement to bury stuff in the ROW. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:47 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > >Sometimes just one strand > > That sucks! > > > > So you have a HH every 20k/40k feet with the butt splice? Nothing in > between? > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 1:42 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > Gophers will kill one fiber at a time. Sometimes just one strand, > sometimes they will eat through the whole cable. Steel armor and all. > > > > Direct bury across the desert, there is no advantage to hand holes. Since > you are not blowing you cannot install slack loops. So the HH is at the > splice point. When you have damage you dig it back and install two HH with > slack loops. > > > > I don’t build direct bury any more. But some do. > > > > > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:20 AM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > When the gophers hit, do they get the entire cable or just a healthy bite > of the cable. I'm wondering if you could somehow see the strength of a > tone down the armor? > > > How far apart are your HH? We try to keep it 1320 or 2640 feet at most > but we are doing FTTH. > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 1:17 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > Yes, if it is a strike you don’t even need the OTDR. Just drive the route > and stop where they are digging. > > Sometimes splices go bad and normally the OTDR indicates a distance very > close to a splice point so that is easy too. > > > > Gophers, never easy. > > > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:06 AM > > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > Sounds like gophers are a lot worse than somebody digging in the wrong > spot, because once you are close you can just look for the above ground > evidence like a hole or an excavator with yellow vest people standing > around. > > > > What were the critters than Bill Murray was at war with in Caddyshack, > were those gophers? Dumb movie, but iconic I guess. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com > *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:43 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > Index of refraction (IOR) differs from reel to reel. If you need accurate > distance measurements you have to enter a precise index of refraction, and > the IOR can vary with distance as well. > > > > The internal timebase drifts. Clock errors and stability cause accuracy > issues. > > > > Pulse width and sample interval adds precision errors. Longer distances > need wider pulses so you lose precision. > > So with a loss of both precision and accuracy that is proportional to > distances being shot, you are never going to walk right up and dig up the > correct spot. > > > > Bottom line, long cables, gopher faults, you will spend lots of time > digging along the line to find it. > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 10:22 AM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > 1.01x > > > > 20,300 foot cable reel is 20,500 of glass > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 9:01 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > That and fiber distance is not equal to cable distance because of the > twist built into the buffer tubes. > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 5:05 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > Good point, with direct bury the sequentials are frequently rubbed off. > > > > > > > > *From:* castarritt > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 2:42 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > Yeah, with direct bury and no handhole for miles, you are in a tough > spot. If the footage marker on the cable you dig up is still there, you > could go off that instead of guessing or cutting. > > > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 2:58 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > When you are out in the desert tracking direct bury fiber, only handholes > are splice points.... good luck. > > If the closest hand hole is 2 miles away from the area of the fault, good > luck. You will wheel it off, read the sequential, then wheel it off again, > dig again. Not find the damage. Then you have the choice to cut and shoot > it again or just start exposing cable. Flip a coin to choose which way to > start digging and start digging. Have dug for hundreds of feed looking for > damage and sometimes it is very hard to see. Sometimes a gopher will just > eat into the side of a cable a little bit. > > > > You can strip it and have someone put a visible light on it if you are > not too far away for that to work. That can tell you if you are on the CO > side of the fault. There are also those bendy fiber detectors that can > help with that too. Hopefully you find it close enough that you can put a > handhole near where you stripped it. Always takes two handholes or peds > to fix. And LOTS of digging. > > > > > > *From:* castarritt > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:49 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > Shouldn't you be able to look at the distance to fault from the last > splice, look up the cable footage marker going into that splice closure (go > check it if you didn't document that when it was built), check footage > marker at closest handhole, and then wheel it off from there? > > > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 2:42 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > So on a 15 mile shot with a problem somewhere in the middle, you think you > can wheel it off and dig it up and find it? > > One shot, from the end. Walk right to the problem? > > > > > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:07 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > That hasn't been my experience, but at the same time we're not 25 mile > shots - it's maybe 15 max. > > > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 11:43 AM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > I also use EXFOs and they will read to the meter, but if you have a fiber > cut out 25 miles, I will bet good money that when you dig up the spot where > your OTDR says the fault is, you will be off by 100 feet or more if you did > not do a test from the nearest splice point. In reality it will be off by > thousands of feet. > > > > Best Regards, > Chuck McCown > > McCown Technology Corporation > 8401 N Commerce Dr > Lake Point, Utah 84074 > 801-250-9503 Office > 435-830-4306 Cell > www.mccowntech.com > www.microtrench.pro > www.terabitnetworks.com > > > > *From:* Ryan Ray > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 9:58 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > We use EXFO otdr's on some spans that are 160km and we can get it down to > the metre. > > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 7:07 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote: > > Don't you document where your splices are? If you see your splices every > 33k and see it's broken 1 mile from the last splice it should be pretty > obvious, no? > > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 6:26 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > Magical device called a fusion splicer. Our reels were typically 33,000’ > > > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:51 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > I don't see how you have a 50 mile span. Even if you get 80k reels that's > 15 miles. > > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:19 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > When you have spans up to 50-75 miles at times, you have to use longer > high power pulses. There is a lot of variability in velocity of > propagation, earth temperature, splice slack loops, fiber twist. 1 mile > error over 50 miles is only 2%. You can easily be off by several thousand > feet. You can’t just go dig. You have to go to the closest splice point > and test again, even then if you it show the fault 2000 feet away and you > dig at 2000 feet you may be off by 20 feet or more. I have been doing this > for decades. Takes lots of digging to actually find it. > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:01 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > A mile?! IDK how that's possible. Every time we turn a new splitter on > the sequentials and OTDR are within a few feet - we lose a couple of feet > in butt splices and our sequentials end up wrong. Every new reel gets > tested on delivery and it's right on. > > > > When we had a broken fiber (ants) it was right on the case. When we had a > broken fiber (ribbon got knicked with installation) it was between two > cases. > > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 3:48 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > Wow, sometimes looking for gopher damager over 20 miles I have been off a > mile. > > > > > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman > > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 1:30 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > So far every time we've used the OTDR it's been accurate within 1 foot. > > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 12:55 PM Trey Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote: > > The only thing you have to worry about with shorter cables is the > reflection. In some instances with dirty connector at just the right > connector you can get reflection back in to the transmitter that can cause > errors, the tx to shut down or premature failure. This is very uncommon > with LR 10G and less optics and can be prevented from making sure you have > clean connectors. Check the RX and TX levels and make sure you don't have > excessive loss. With 100G its a little different story due to the combined > power of multiple channels, but still can be prevented by cleaning > connectors, but in some instances Ive had to use attenuation when mixing > different vendor optics. > > The using no launch on an OTDR most automatically calibrating OTDRs will > work without one. Your results can be off though. Most of the lower cost > ones are also lower powered and have less of an RX sensitivity so they > don't suffer as much from the reflections interfering when testing. I can > test all day long with my little otdrs without one, but my long range 200k+ > units I have to have a minimum of a 1k spool on it or you see ghosts. They > will show up as repeating events at even intervals. Not something you will > see on shorter runs either. > > > > On 8/26/24 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I should note that apparently I used to do this with direct attach cables > (DAC) but I think that was a pain, one more thing to stock and to bring > with for projects. Whereas I’d always have boxes full of SFPs and fiber > patch cords. > > > > *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On > Behalf Of *Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2024 4:20 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com > <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > People say you need a launch cable but our cheap china OTDRs have no > issues seeing the connector at the end of the patch cable and stuff > beyond. I bought a big launch cable back in the day and never use it > anymore. > > > > Might be different with AE? > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 5:16 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > > Only minimum length I know of is the OTDR dead zone. If that is a problem > you purposely lengthen the cable with a launch cable. > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman > > *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2024 1:59 PM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables > > > > Reddit is wrong. Gasp. > > > > Connectors are loss, there is more loss in either one of the connectors > than there is the single mode glass. > > > > Between a switch/router in a rack what I see all the time is long (like > 5/10/15 feet) cables and then put the slack in a loop along the posts. > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 1:19 PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote: > > Patchbox makes some great products, their fiber system is pretty slick but > expensive. > > > > Cable length is irrelevant it's optical budget / Rx signal strength. > Normally on 2-20k LR optics you are ok with any length cable, 40km+ needs a > pad on short spans. (Attenuator) > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2024, 8:29 AM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com> wrote: > > Is there a minimum length for a single mode fiber patch cable? > > > > I have been using 1 meter cables and they are almost always too long, I’m > talking about going between routers and switches in a rack, stuff like > that. I see that FS sells 0.5 meter cables, but I saw somewhere like maybe > on Reddit someone claiming there was a minimum length. Given SM fiber and > LR optics, I don’t see how 0.5 or 1.0 meter would be different they are > both essentially zero length. > > > > Probably there’s some kind of cable tray or cable management solution I > could be using but I’ve never liked such things. > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ------------------------------ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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