Our damage has been almost exclusive gopher damage.
They eat direct bury and microduct.
They will eat .75” duct too but not as much. Rarely do they eat
through 1.25 HDPE.
This is learned from doing all the wrong things over the past 25 years.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 2:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
What's caused the damage in your experiences? Random failures or big
yellow cats?
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 3:58 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
When you are out in the desert tracking direct bury fiber, only
handholes are splice points.... good luck.
If the closest hand hole is 2 miles away from the area of the
fault, good luck. You will wheel it off, read the sequential,
then wheel it off again, dig again. Not find the damage. Then you
have the choice to cut and shoot it again or just start exposing
cable. Flip a coin to choose which way to start digging and start
digging. Have dug for hundreds of feed looking for damage and
sometimes it is very hard to see. Sometimes a gopher will just
eat into the side of a cable a little bit.
You can strip it and have someone put a visible light on it if
you are not too far away for that to work. That can tell you if
you are on the CO side of the fault. There are also those bendy
fiber detectors that can help with that too. Hopefully you find
it close enough that you can put a handhole near where you
stripped it. Always takes two handholes or peds to fix. And LOTS
of digging.
*From:* castarritt
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:49 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
Shouldn't you be able to look at the distance to fault from the
last splice, look up the cable footage marker going into that
splice closure (go check it if you didn't document that when it
was built), check footage marker at closest handhole, and then
wheel it off from there?
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 2:42 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
So on a 15 mile shot with a problem somewhere in the middle,
you think you can wheel it off and dig it up and find it?
One shot, from the end. Walk right to the problem?
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2024 1:07 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
That hasn't been my experience, but at the same time we're not
25 mile shots - it's maybe 15 max.
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 11:43 AM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
I also use EXFOs and they will read to the meter, but if
you have a fiber cut out 25 miles, I will bet good money
that when you dig up the spot where your OTDR says the
fault is, you will be off by 100 feet or more if you did
not do a test from the nearest splice point. In reality it
will be off by thousands of feet.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>
*From:* Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 9:58 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
We use EXFO otdr's on some spans that are 160km and we can
get it down to the metre.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 7:07 PM Josh Luthman
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
Don't you document where your splices are? If you see
your splices every 33k and see it's broken 1 mile from
the last splice it should be pretty obvious, no?
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 6:26 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
Magical device called a fusion splicer. Our reels
were typically 33,000’
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:51 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
I don't see how you have a 50 mile span. Even if
you get 80k reels that's 15 miles.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:19 PM <ch...@go-mtc.com>
wrote:
When you have spans up to 50-75 miles at
times, you have to use longer high power
pulses. There is a lot of variability in
velocity of propagation, earth temperature,
splice slack loops, fiber twist. 1 mile error
over 50 miles is only 2%. You can easily be
off by several thousand feet. You can’t just
go dig. You have to go to the closest splice
point and test again, even then if you it show
the fault 2000 feet away and you dig at 2000
feet you may be off by 20 feet or more. I
have been doing this for decades. Takes lots
of digging to actually find it.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 3:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
A mile?! IDK how that's possible. Every time
we turn a new splitter on the sequentials and
OTDR are within a few feet - we lose a couple
of feet in butt splices and our sequentials
end up wrong. Every new reel gets tested on
delivery and it's right on.
When we had a broken fiber (ants) it was right
on the case. When we had a broken fiber
(ribbon got knicked with installation) it was
between two cases.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 3:48 PM
<ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
Wow, sometimes looking for gopher damager
over 20 miles I have been off a mile.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2024 1:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
So far every time we've used the OTDR it's
been accurate within 1 foot.
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 12:55 PM Trey
Scarborough <t...@3dsc.co> wrote:
The only thing you have to worry about
with shorter cables is the reflection.
In some instances with dirty connector
at just the right connector you can
get reflection back in to the
transmitter that can cause errors, the
tx to shut down or premature failure.
This is very uncommon with LR 10G and
less optics and can be prevented from
making sure you have clean connectors.
Check the RX and TX levels and make
sure you don't have excessive loss.
With 100G its a little different story
due to the combined power of multiple
channels, but still can be prevented
by cleaning connectors, but in some
instances Ive had to use attenuation
when mixing different vendor optics.
The using no launch on an OTDR most
automatically calibrating OTDRs will
work without one. Your results can be
off though. Most of the lower cost
ones are also lower powered and have
less of an RX sensitivity so they
don't suffer as much from the
reflections interfering when testing.
I can test all day long with my little
otdrs without one, but my long range
200k+ units I have to have a minimum
of a 1k spool on it or you see ghosts.
They will show up as repeating events
at even intervals. Not something you
will see on shorter runs either.
On 8/26/24 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I should note that apparently I used
to do this with direct attach cables
(DAC) but I think that was a pain,
one more thing to stock and to bring
with for projects. Whereas I’d always
have boxes full of SFPs and fiber
patch cords.
*From:*AF
mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On
Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2024 4:20 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
People say you need a launch cable
but our cheap china OTDRs have no
issues seeing the connector at the
end of the patch cable and stuff
beyond. I bought a big launch cable
back in the day and never use it anymore.
Might be different with AE?
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 5:16 PM
<ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
Only minimum length I know of is
the OTDR dead zone. If that is a
problem you purposely lengthen
the cable with a launch cable.
*From:*Josh Luthman
*Sent:*Monday, August 26, 2024
1:59 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch
cables
Reddit is wrong. Gasp.
Connectors are loss, there is
more loss in either one of the
connectors than there is the
single mode glass.
Between a switch/router in a rack
what I see all the time is long
(like 5/10/15 feet) cables and
then put the slack in a loop
along the posts.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 1:19 PM
TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
Patchbox makes some great
products, their fiber system
is pretty slick but expensive.
Cable length is irrelevant
it's optical budget / Rx
signal strength. Normally on
2-20k LR optics you are ok
with any length cable, 40km+
needs a pad on short spans.
(Attenuator)
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024, 8:29 AM
Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com>
wrote:
Is there a minimum length
for a single mode fiber
patch cable?
I have been using 1 meter
cables and they are
almost always too long,
I’m talking about going
between routers and
switches in a rack, stuff
like that. I see that FS
sells 0.5 meter cables,
but I saw somewhere like
maybe on Reddit someone
claiming there was a
minimum length. Given SM
fiber and LR optics, I
don’t see how 0.5 or 1.0
meter would be different
they are both essentially
zero length.
Probably there’s some
kind of cable tray or
cable management solution
I could be using but I’ve
never liked such things.
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