EXACTLY
From: Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
It’d be like Glassdoor, but for employers.
I’m told such a thing exists in the medical industry already. Apparently my
sister in law is solicited by other hospitals from it, due to her high marks..
she also has a couple of negative issues in it but was able to write a dispute
and submit to her “permanent record” for future hiring people to review “her
side”.
On Feb 15, 2023, at 10:43, Cameron Crum <cc...@murcevilo.com> wrote:
I like the first idea, but the second not so much. It is so subjective as to
what makes someone a bad employee. It could be that he is great at something
that the other company didn't let him do or that he wasn't guided correctly, or
a number of things. I have seen people who were fired for bad performance at
one place come to another with a different atmosphere and become rock stars,
and also the opposite. Maybe things like punctuality, drinking/drug use on the
job, or other things that are physical or legal metrics, but I see that as
becoming something that could really hurt people. I have worked for employers
who just couldn't find the right spot for me despite me making lots of
suggestions and showing them what I could do with those ideas. In the end I was
ignored and fired, and I can promise I wouldn't get good reviews from them. Is
there anyone that can say every employer would give them shining reviews? I
doubt it.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 12:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote:
There is a new startup for you, have potential employees register,
potential employers register, match up the ones that have overlap. “Legal
Tender”
Here is another one.
I wish there as a service that employers could subscribe to where we can
all report bad employees. Give people kinda a credit score based on how good
or bad they were at previous jobs. Let them file a protest and a letter just
like a credit report.
I would call it “The permanent record”
From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I really wish there was a way that one could determine if the maximum an
employer was willing to pay overlapped with the minimum an employee would
accept without completely spoiling the whole negotiation process.
I don't want to waste anyone's time if I won't be able to pay anything
close to what they need.
I have the same issue with some vendors who force you through this entire
quoting process to find out that the lowest price they can offer is 10x what
you'd be able to afford.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 9:33 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
If they didn’t advertise any range or even a ballpark figure at all then
it’s fair to ask what they had in mind.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:28 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I disagree with that, late last year I was laid off so most of January I
was looking for another job. I was making over 100k at the last role and more
than one interview in January for a role only to find out they top out at
like 60k. So after that I would only interview if I knew the range. It was a
waste of time for me if I did not know the pay..
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 11:17 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
Not only that, but part of Job Hunting 101 is don’t discuss
compensation too early. This isn’t some executive level skill, everyone should
know this. You can negotiate once it’s understood that both parties are
interested.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List
Account)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
The value of someone with zero skills and experience is zero.
The fact that many employers are willing to hire someone that has zero
skills and experience at $15/hr and train them at zero cost to the employee is
an awesome deal for a person who wants an opportunity.
Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people with zero skills and zero
experience think they should get paid at the same rate as someone who has gone
to school on their own dime and learned a trade. Or the same as someone who
has 20 years experience.
Apparently the electrical field has the same problems. Employers
willing to take the risk on someone and pay not only to train the people but
also to pay a survival wage during training are often rewarded by applicants
that demand the same wages as fully licensed electricians.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 8:08 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:
I don't quite get the logic of this.
Why would you work for less than market wages?
How is working for less than market wages an investment in yourself?
- Jared
On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 Chuck Macenski wrote:
One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so
a lot of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places
even in the field of welding pay higher to start."
Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in
themselves."
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:
A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho.
A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind
expands, you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new.
Personally, I don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my
neighbours and volume levels and having no space to do anything.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own
sandwich, or living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with
roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a house).
My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the
single wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down there
with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy. When they
had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was nice. I wouldn’t
have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer.
I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have
valuable teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think
about the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a
bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than
generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying yourself.
In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even a new family
with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment unless they wait
until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a year for a while.
Or live in the boonies and kill your own food, gather your own
wood, and there’s nothing wrong with that either.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:25 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
wrote:
Exactly what problems are young people facing? Almost every
single one that wants to can enlist in the military. That will feed them and
teach them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out
with the VA and GI Bill. Pell grants, student loans.
If someone wants to better themselves, they can. Kids today have
it far easier than ever before. Work from home, online classes that are free,
hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube.
What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich? If you are broke,
don’t f**king spend. You are making my point for me.
Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work
and living in a single wide. Those are human rights abuses man! (said all the
snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer)
Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the
mountain does it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”?
You eat what you kill.
https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
From: Ryan Ray
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Not defeatist or jealousy or envy.
I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25
Years old). Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for
someone my age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of
long nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without
having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old folks, I
pulled myself up by my bootstraps.
However, your attitude is what makes me call you a boomer. You
seem to have no empathy and are not willing to discuss the current problems
facing young people today. You keep referencing back to how you did it, and
just a few bucks in the 80's or the 70's or whatever. I could see it in your
post. Saying things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride the bus, live in a
trailer"
Don't get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot
from you over the years both in person and through this list. I take that as
one of my core values is to listen to people, even when I think they're
stupidly wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any viewpoint and
that makes me better in everything I do.
I just think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic
issues plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had it,
just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or should we just
keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and you got yours, so the
young kids can go pound sand because their $18/hr job should suffice. (BTW my
first "real" job back in 2008 was 35k a year) I was 19. No schooling, and that
would be your $18/hr now.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
wrote:
Defeatist attitude.
Or just jealous? Envy?
In 1990 I was so broke I was sitting on the side of the highway
with my 4 kids (at the time) selling everything I had to get a bus ticket to
get out of town to get to a job to make a few bucks to move the family.
Fast forward 10 short years and I had enough to retire.
Just hard work. At 40 no less, not 50.
And now 33 years later my house is 5 X larger than that.
Hell, my garage is bigger than that.
And my only roommates have been my kids.
But there was some sleeping in dirt and enjoying it at certain
periods.
Doncha only wish you could be like a boomer...
From: Ryan Ray
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 3:48 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
lol. These boomers I swear. Live in your 5 roommate 2000sqft
box until 50, retire at 87. Bcck in my day I slept in a dirt pile and we
enjoyed it.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:41 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
wrote:
Fantasy land
From: Ryan Ray
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:54 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I think ages make a huge difference in a lot of this. If
you're talking about a 17 year old, you're still living at home, saving all
your money, trying to get out. Sure, $17 an hour would be amazing.
If you're 22, you should be able to afford a 1br apartment on
your own, you shouldn't need roommates, you should expect that you can save 1k
a month for the future, maybe purchase a home by 28? You're going to need to
make more than $17 an hour.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 1:10 PM Chuck McCown
<ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
Not sure I am getting your point. Young people frequently
struggle when starting out. The struggle is valuable. You get ahead by
getting educated, getting trained, learning skills people will pay you for.
You do not deserve anything but free air to breath and perhaps water if you
live in an area where it rains. You eat what you kill.
In your example below you are not taking into account,
those with half a brain will have roomates with which to split all the rent and
utilities. That one move makes it go to having plenty of spending money.
So what is it you want me to learn here? In 1979 milk was
$1/gallon. It is now $4.33. Same price adjusted for inflation ...
I do not buy that the kids now-a-days have it any worse
than I did.
Cost of a big mac in 1979 was 95 cents. Today, $4.50, same
price adjusted for inflation...
What do I need to learn here???
From: Ryan Ray
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Chuck,
I'm going to assume you're not trying to cherry pick
statistics and want to learn and listen.
Housing is only one part of the equation. Food, services,
fuel, goods are at all time highs. Rental markets are becoming unfeasible
unless living with roommates. I'm not sure where or how this mobile home fits
in with the work in your area. Is there work in the area for your daughter to
earn $18 an hour?
Talent.com says that at $18 an hour, working for 40 hours a
week, gets you $2500 monthly net.
Going off these assumptions Cost of Living in Utah (2023) |
SoFi
Rent: $1100
Food (No Restaurants): $253
Utilities: $300
Gas?: $400
I think you yanks have things like health insurance.
$100/mo?
I haven't thought of everything, but you're already up to
$2200/mo. You don't get ahead because you're behind before you even start.
Now take into account that the average home price in Utah
is $500k and you cherry picked some bottom of the barrel trailer. I can't tell
if you're being serious or not.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF
<af@af.afmug.com> wrote:
One of my millennial daughters, grown, married, trying to
adult, lives with her brother and his wife told me that I just don’t understand
how hard it is today compared to when I was younger. So I did a little
comparison for her:
My first paid job in 1976 was $2/hour. That would be
about $10.70/hour today.
(I was an unpaid apprentice to a machinist in 1974, and
slave labor on the farm from 1960 until I escaped).
My first skilled, formally trained, semi professional,
utility lineman job in 1979 paid $4.50/hour.
That would be about $18 today.
My first home, single wide 10 x 50 mobile home cost
$12,000 in 1982. Or about $36K today.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/744-S-1750-W-Vernal-UT-84078/2070550612_zpid/
So how is it people have it so much worse today?
From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Too many parents want to be friends with their kids and
not actually parent. Good news is, if you do a good job of parenting, you’ll
likely have the opportunity out to become friends with your kids after they
move out.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
On Feb 14, 2023, at 1:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.com> wrote:
Yeah, that’s a problem for sure.
All the youth (and some adults) see online is
prosperity and wealth and entitlement.
Your definition of existing just doesn’t even come to
their minds. To use a phrase, they literally don’t comprehend it.
I was living happily in a one room apartment for $400 a
month and eating the same PB&J and soup for lunch/dinner on almost no monthly
spend.
I had an old futon bed that I had purchased in college
as furniture. My monthly output was focused on paying rent and a bit for food
and my car.
I was hungry for more, made my way by learning, taking
what I could find and working my way up.
And during none of that did I think to myself, “This is
shit, I am entitled to more because I exist.” Lol
My grown kids ask for very little and even then get
told no all the time, or have conditions.
I worry about my younger kids that have spent a lot
more time online. They still know they get nothing as a default, but they are
more entitled in language and practice than my older kids.
Society online in general isn’t doing anyone any favors.
I mean some of the youtube crap they watch is just
inane, and some of these people just throw around money like it magically
appeared to them out of thin air without a care.
There is no accountability or explanation.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck
McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:37 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I advertised for hiring yesterday, a no experience
necessary, get paid to learn MIG mild steel welding. PT/FT flexible hours.
We hire 17 year olds. I immediately got crap from this guy saying that the
“young people of today” cannot exist on less than $18/hour which is what he
gets and he works from home.
Lots of people defended my $15/entry level, get paid to
learn welding position.
He deleted his post then sent me this:
Hello there,
Our of respect for you because it wasn't my intent to
cause tension, I've deleted my comment on your posting. My only point was to
emphasize that the going rate for a lot of entry level jobs is much higher than
$15 an hour. Welding is a great skill and can open up great avenues in the
future.
However, The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour
so a lot of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places
even in the field of welding pay higher to start.
What I emphasized at my company starting at $18 is just
one example. We have people here that make well over $50 an hour because we
operate on a commission structure. But that $18 base is livable when a one
bedroom is $1000+ in tooele a month and depending on where you live it's as low
as $1600+
Again, never meant to offend so I am sorry for causing
you any trouble.
I replied:
So you expect someone to walk from High School
directly into a job where they can have a nice home, car and things? Wow,
without learning a trade, profession or other skill? Our $15/hour people take
home $2000/month. Pretty sure someone can exist on that and the smart ones
will have roommates or live with their parents. And the smarter ones will
quickly be making more than $18/hour. We have exactly zero problems finding as
many workers as we need. So your opinion that "youth of today" cannot exist on
$15/hour is just that, unfounded opinion. I guess your definition of "exist"
is different than mine. You can exist by walking, riding a bicycle or taking a
bus to work. You can exist by eating home cooked meals and making a home made
sandwich for your lunch. You can exist by wearing clothes from a thrift store.
You don't need the latest iPhone and Netflix to exist. Read a book. The
struggle IS the journey and is what creates grit and strong character.
He replied and blocked me:
Yeah Okay Boomer. I was reaching out to be nice but you
clearly have no idea what life is like for us today. I just bought my first
house at 31 because of how shit things are right now compared to when you were
younger. But thanks for proving my point by being an asshole about "my
definition of exist"
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