I like the first idea, but the second not so much. It is so subjective as to what makes someone a bad employee. It could be that he is great at something that the other company didn't let him do or that he wasn't guided correctly, or a number of things. I have seen people who were fired for bad performance at one place come to another with a different atmosphere and become rock stars, and also the opposite. Maybe things like punctuality, drinking/drug use on the job, or other things that are physical or legal metrics, but I see that as becoming something that could really hurt people. I have worked for employers who just couldn't find the right spot for me despite me making lots of suggestions and showing them what I could do with those ideas. In the end I was ignored and fired, and I can promise I wouldn't get good reviews from them. Is there anyone that can say every employer would give them shining reviews? I doubt it.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 12:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > There is a new startup for you, have potential employees register, > potential employers register, match up the ones that have overlap. “Legal > Tender” > > Here is another one. > I wish there as a service that employers could subscribe to where we can > all report bad employees. Give people kinda a credit score based on how > good or bad they were at previous jobs. Let them file a protest and a > letter just like a credit report. > I would call it “The permanent record” > > > *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:18 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange > > I really wish there was a way that one could determine if the maximum an > employer was willing to pay overlapped with the minimum an employee would > accept without completely spoiling the whole negotiation process. > > I don't want to waste anyone's time if I won't be able to pay anything > close to what they need. > > I have the same issue with some vendors who force you through this entire > quoting process to find out that the lowest price they can offer is 10x > what you'd be able to afford. > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 9:33 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> If they didn’t advertise any range or even a ballpark figure at all then >> it’s fair to ask what they had in mind. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Zach Underwood >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:28 AM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> I disagree with that, late last year I was laid off so most of January I >> was looking for another job. I was making over 100k at the last role and >> more than one interview in January for a role only to find out they top >> out at like 60k. So after that I would only interview if I knew the range. >> It was a waste of time for me if I did not know the pay.. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 11:17 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Not only that, but part of Job Hunting 101 is don’t discuss compensation >> too early. This isn’t some executive level skill, everyone should know >> this. You can negotiate once it’s understood that both parties are >> interested. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian >> (List Account) >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:10 AM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> The value of someone with zero skills and experience is zero. >> >> >> >> The fact that many employers are willing to hire someone that has zero >> skills and experience at $15/hr and train them at zero cost to the employee >> is an awesome deal for a person who wants an opportunity. >> >> >> >> Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people with zero skills and zero >> experience think they should get paid at the same rate as someone who has >> gone to school on their own dime and learned a trade. Or the same as >> someone who has 20 years experience. >> >> >> >> Apparently the electrical field has the same problems. Employers willing >> to take the risk on someone and pay not only to train the people but also >> to pay a survival wage during training are often rewarded by applicants >> that demand the same wages as fully licensed electricians. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 8:08 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote: >> >> I don't quite get the logic of this. >> >> >> >> Why would you work for less than market wages? >> >> >> >> How is working for less than market wages an investment in yourself? >> >> >> >> - Jared >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 Chuck Macenski wrote: >> >> One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a >> lot of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places >> even in the field of welding pay higher to start." >> >> >> >> Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves." >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho. >> >> >> >> A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind expands, >> you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. Personally, I >> don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my neighbours >> and volume levels and having no space to do anything. >> >> >> >> I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or >> living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with >> roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a >> house). >> >> >> >> My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the >> single wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down >> there with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy. >> When they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was >> nice. I wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer. >> >> >> >> I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable >> teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about >> the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a >> bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than >> generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying >> yourself. In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even >> a new family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment >> unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a >> year for a while. >> >> >> >> Or live in the boonies and kill your own food, gather your own wood, and >> there’s nothing wrong with that either. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:25 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Exactly what problems are young people facing? Almost every single one >> that wants to can enlist in the military. That will feed them and teach >> them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out >> with the VA and GI Bill. Pell grants, student loans. >> >> >> >> If someone wants to better themselves, they can. Kids today have it far >> easier than ever before. Work from home, online classes that are free, >> hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube. >> >> >> >> What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich? If you are broke, don’t >> f**king spend. You are making my point for me. >> >> >> >> Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and >> living in a single wide. Those are human rights abuses man! (said all the >> snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer) >> >> >> >> Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain does >> it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”? >> >> >> >> You eat what you kill. >> >> >> >> >> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/ >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Ryan Ray >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM >> >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> >> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> Not defeatist or jealousy or envy. >> >> I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years old). >> Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for someone my >> age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of long >> nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without >> having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old >> folks, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. >> >> >> However, your attitude is what makes me call you a boomer. You seem to >> have no empathy and are not willing to discuss the current problems facing >> young people today. You keep referencing back to how you did it, and just a >> few bucks in the 80's or the 70's or whatever. I could see it in your post. >> Saying things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride the bus, live in a >> trailer" >> >> >> >> Don't get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot from you >> over the years both in person and through this list. I take that as one of >> my core values is to listen to people, even when I think they're stupidly >> wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any viewpoint and that >> makes me better in everything I do. >> >> >> I just think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic issues >> plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had it, >> just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or should we >> just keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and you got yours, so >> the young kids can go pound sand because their $18/hr job should suffice. >> (BTW my first "real" job back in 2008 was 35k a year) I was 19. No >> schooling, and that would be your $18/hr now. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Defeatist attitude. >> >> >> >> Or just jealous? Envy? >> >> >> >> In 1990 I was so broke I was sitting on the side of the highway with my 4 >> kids (at the time) selling everything I had to get a bus ticket to get out >> of town to get to a job to make a few bucks to move the family. >> >> >> >> Fast forward 10 short years and I had enough to retire. >> >> Just hard work. At 40 no less, not 50. >> >> >> >> And now 33 years later my house is 5 X larger than that. >> >> Hell, my garage is bigger than that. >> >> And my only roommates have been my kids. >> >> >> >> But there was some sleeping in dirt and enjoying it at certain periods. >> >> Doncha only wish you could be like a boomer... >> >> >> >> *From:* Ryan Ray >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 3:48 PM >> >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> >> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> lol. These boomers I swear. Live in your 5 roommate 2000sqft box until >> 50, retire at 87. Bcck in my day I slept in a dirt pile and we enjoyed it. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:41 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Fantasy land >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Ryan Ray >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:54 PM >> >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> >> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> I think ages make a huge difference in a lot of this. If you're talking >> about a 17 year old, you're still living at home, saving all your money, >> trying to get out. Sure, $17 an hour would be amazing. >> >> If you're 22, you should be able to afford a 1br apartment on your own, >> you shouldn't need roommates, you should expect that you can save 1k a >> month for the future, maybe purchase a home by 28? You're going to need to >> make more than $17 an hour. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 1:10 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >> Not sure I am getting your point. Young people frequently struggle when >> starting out. The struggle is valuable. You get ahead by getting >> educated, getting trained, learning skills people will pay you for. You do >> not deserve anything but free air to breath and perhaps water if you live >> in an area where it rains. You eat what you kill. >> >> >> >> In your example below you are not taking into account, those with half a >> brain will have roomates with which to split all the rent and utilities. >> That one move makes it go to having plenty of spending money. >> >> >> >> So what is it you want me to learn here? In 1979 milk was $1/gallon. It >> is now $4.33. Same price adjusted for inflation ... >> >> >> >> I do not buy that the kids now-a-days have it any worse than I did. >> >> >> >> Cost of a big mac in 1979 was 95 cents. Today, $4.50, same price >> adjusted for inflation... >> >> >> >> What do I need to learn here??? >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Ryan Ray >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:58 PM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Cc:* Chuck McCown >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> Chuck, >> >> I'm going to assume you're not trying to cherry pick statistics and want >> to learn and listen. >> >> Housing is only one part of the equation. Food, services, fuel, goods are >> at all time highs. Rental markets are becoming unfeasible unless living >> with roommates. I'm not sure where or how this mobile home fits in with the >> work in your area. Is there work in the area for your daughter to earn $18 >> an hour? >> >> Talent.com says that at $18 an hour, working for 40 hours a week, gets >> you $2500 monthly net. >> Going off these assumptions Cost of Living in Utah (2023) | SoFi >> <https://www.sofi.com/cost-living-utah/> >> >> Rent: $1100 >> Food (No Restaurants): $253 >> >> Utilities: $300 >> >> Gas?: $400 >> >> I think you yanks have things like health insurance. $100/mo? >> >> >> >> I haven't thought of everything, but you're already up to $2200/mo. You >> don't get ahead because you're behind before you even start. >> >> Now take into account that the average home price in Utah is $500k and >> you cherry picked some bottom of the barrel trailer. I can't tell if you're >> being serious or not. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> >> wrote: >> >> One of my millennial daughters, grown, married, trying to adult, lives >> with her brother and his wife told me that I just don’t understand how hard >> it is today compared to when I was younger. So I did a little comparison >> for her: >> >> >> >> >> >> My first paid job in 1976 was $2/hour. That would be about $10.70/hour >> today. >> >> >> >> (I was an unpaid apprentice to a machinist in 1974, and slave labor on >> the farm from 1960 until I escaped). >> >> >> >> My first skilled, formally trained, semi professional, utility lineman >> job in 1979 paid $4.50/hour. >> >> That would be about $18 today. >> >> >> >> My first home, single wide 10 x 50 mobile home cost $12,000 in 1982. Or >> about $36K today. >> >> >> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/744-S-1750-W-Vernal-UT-84078/2070550612_zpid/ >> >> >> >> So how is it people have it so much worse today? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:39 AM >> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> Too many parents want to be friends with their kids and not actually >> parent. Good news is, if you do a good job of parenting, you’ll likely >> have the opportunity out to become friends with your kids after they move >> out. >> >> >> Jeff Broadwick >> >> CTIconnect >> >> 312-205-2519 Office >> >> 574-220-7826 Cell >> >> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com >> >> >> >> On Feb 14, 2023, at 1:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Yeah, that’s a problem for sure. >> >> >> >> All the youth (and some adults) see online is prosperity and wealth and >> entitlement. >> >> >> >> Your definition of existing just doesn’t even come to their minds. To use >> a phrase, they literally don’t comprehend it. >> >> >> >> I was living happily in a one room apartment for $400 a month and eating >> the same PB&J and soup for lunch/dinner on almost no monthly spend. >> >> I had an old futon bed that I had purchased in college as furniture. My >> monthly output was focused on paying rent and a bit for food and my car. >> >> >> >> I was hungry for more, made my way by learning, taking what I could find >> and working my way up. >> >> >> >> And during none of that did I think to myself, “This is shit, I am >> entitled to more because I exist.” Lol >> >> >> >> My grown kids ask for very little and even then get told no all the time, >> or have conditions. >> >> I worry about my younger kids that have spent a lot more time online. >> They still know they get nothing as a default, but they are more entitled >> in language and practice than my older kids. >> >> Society online in general isn’t doing anyone any favors. >> >> >> >> I mean some of the youtube crap they watch is just inane, and some of >> these people just throw around money like it magically appeared to them out >> of thin air without a care. >> >> There is no accountability or explanation. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:37 AM >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >> *Cc:* Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> >> >> I advertised for hiring yesterday, a no experience necessary, get paid to >> learn MIG mild steel welding. PT/FT flexible hours. We hire 17 year >> olds. I immediately got crap from this guy saying that the “young people >> of today” cannot exist on less than $18/hour which is what he gets and he >> works from home. >> >> >> >> Lots of people defended my $15/entry level, get paid to learn welding >> position. >> >> He deleted his post then sent me this: >> >> >> >> Hello there, >> >> >> >> Our of respect for you because it wasn't my intent to cause tension, I've >> deleted my comment on your posting. My only point was to emphasize that the >> going rate for a lot of entry level jobs is much higher than $15 an hour. >> Welding is a great skill and can open up great avenues in the future. >> >> >> >> However, The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot of >> candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even in >> the field of welding pay higher to start. >> >> >> >> What I emphasized at my company starting at $18 is just one example. We >> have people here that make well over $50 an hour because we operate on a >> commission structure. But that $18 base is livable when a one bedroom is >> $1000+ in tooele a month and depending on where you live it's as low as >> $1600+ >> >> >> >> Again, never meant to offend so I am sorry for causing you any trouble. >> >> >> >> I replied: >> >> So you expect someone to walk from High School directly into a job where >> they can have a nice home, car and things? Wow, without learning a trade, >> profession or other skill? Our $15/hour people take home $2000/month. >> Pretty sure someone can exist on that and the smart ones will have >> roommates or live with their parents. And the smarter ones will quickly be >> making more than $18/hour. We have exactly zero problems finding as many >> workers as we need. So your opinion that "youth of today" cannot exist on >> $15/hour is just that, unfounded opinion. I guess your definition of >> "exist" is different than mine. You can exist by walking, riding a bicycle >> or taking a bus to work. You can exist by eating home cooked meals and >> making a home made sandwich for your lunch. You can exist by wearing >> clothes from a thrift store. You don't need the latest iPhone and Netflix >> to exist. Read a book. The struggle IS the journey and is what creates >> grit and strong character. >> >> >> >> He replied and blocked me: >> >> Yeah Okay Boomer. I was reaching out to be nice but you clearly have no >> idea what life is like for us today. I just bought my first house at 31 >> because of how shit things are right now compared to when you were younger. >> But thanks for proving my point by being an asshole about "my definition of >> exist" >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) >> >> My website <http://zachunderwood.me> >> >> advance-networking.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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