It’d be like Glassdoor, but for employers.
I’m told such a thing exists in the medical industry already. Apparently my sister in law is solicited by other hospitals from it, due to her high marks.. she also has a couple of negative issues in it but was able to write a dispute and submit to her “permanent record” for future hiring people to review “her side”.
On Feb 15, 2023, at 10:43, Cameron Crum <cc...@murcevilo.com> wrote:
I like the first idea, but the second not so much. It is so subjective as to what makes someone a bad employee. It could be that he is great at something that the other company didn't let him do or that he wasn't guided correctly, or a number of things. I have seen people who were fired for bad performance at one place come to another with a different atmosphere and become rock stars, and also the opposite. Maybe things like punctuality, drinking/drug use on the job, or other things that are physical or legal metrics, but I see that as becoming something that could really hurt people. I have worked for employers who just couldn't find the right spot for me despite me making lots of suggestions and showing them what I could do with those ideas. In the end I was ignored and fired, and I can promise I wouldn't get good reviews from them. Is there anyone that can say every employer would give them shining reviews? I doubt it. On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 12:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com> wrote:
There is a new startup for you, have potential employees register,
potential employers register, match up the ones that have overlap. “Legal
Tender”
Here is another one.
I wish there as a service that employers could subscribe to where we can
all report bad employees. Give people kinda a credit score based on how
good or bad they were at previous jobs. Let them file a protest and a
letter just like a credit report.
I would call it “The permanent record”
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I really wish there was a way that one could determine if the maximum an
employer was willing to pay overlapped with the minimum an employee would accept
without completely spoiling the whole negotiation process.
I don't want to waste anyone's time if I won't be able to pay anything
close to what they need.
I have the same issue with some vendors who force you through this entire
quoting process to find out that the lowest price they can offer is 10x what
you'd be able to afford.
If they didn’t advertise any range or even a ballpark
figure at all then it’s fair to ask what they had in mind.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Zach
Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:28 AM
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB
Exchange
I disagree with that, late last year I was laid off so most
of January I was looking for another job. I was making over 100k at the last
role and more than one interview in January for a role only
to find out they top out at like 60k. So after that I would only interview if
I knew the range. It was a waste of time for me if I did not know the pay..
Not only that, but part of Job Hunting 101 is don’t
discuss compensation too early. This isn’t some executive level skill,
everyone should know this. You can negotiate once it’s understood that
both parties are interested.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Forrest
Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:10
AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FB
Exchange
The value of someone with zero skills and experience is
zero.
The fact that many employers are willing to hire someone
that has zero skills and experience at $15/hr and train them at zero cost to
the employee is an awesome deal for a person who wants an opportunity.
Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people with zero
skills and zero experience think they should get paid at the same rate as
someone who has gone to school on their own dime and learned a
trade. Or the same as someone who has 20 years experience.
Apparently the electrical field has the same
problems. Employers willing to take the risk on someone and pay not
only to train the people but also to pay a survival wage during training are
often rewarded by applicants that demand the same wages as fully licensed
electricians.
I don't quite
get the logic of this.
Why would you
work for less than market wages?
How is working
for less than market wages an investment in
yourself?
On Wednesday,
February 15, 2023 Chuck Macenski wrote:
One way to
say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot of
candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even
in the field of welding pay higher to start."
Another way
to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in
themselves."
A lot of what
is happening now can be attributed to housing imho.
A house is
your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind expands, you have
more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. Personally, I don’t
get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my neighbours and
volume levels and having no space to do anything.
I’m not saying
there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or living at your
appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with roommates living.
It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a
house).
My parents
have told me about their times growing up, living in the single wide.
The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down there with
the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy. When
they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was nice.
I wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer.
I don’t really
believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable teachings (and
not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about the world at
large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a bad mantra
to think that the new generation should have it better than generations
past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying yourself. In
Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even a new
family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment
unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k)
a year for a while.
Or live in the
boonies and kill your own food, gather your own wood, and there’s
nothing wrong with that either.
Exactly
what problems are young people facing? Almost every single one
that wants to can enlist in the military. That will feed them
and teach them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they
will come out with the VA and GI Bill. Pell grants, student
loans.
If
someone wants to better themselves, they can. Kids today have it
far easier than ever before. Work from home, online classes that
are free, hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on
Youtube.
What is
wrong with making yourself a sandwich? If you are broke, don’t
f**king spend. You are making my point for me.
Oh, the
horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and living in
a single wide. Those are human rights abuses man! (said
all the snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm
sewer)
Where
on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain does it
say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”?
Sent:
Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM
Cc:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
Not
defeatist or jealousy or envy.
I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft
house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years old). Sold my company, and I
live an extremely comfortable life for someone my age. No mortgage, a
couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of long nights, lots of
learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without having any
generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old folks, I
pulled myself up by my
bootstraps.
However, your attitude is what
makes me call you a boomer. You seem to have no empathy and are not
willing to discuss the current problems facing young people today. You
keep referencing back to how you did it, and just a few bucks in the
80's or the 70's or whatever. I could see it in your post. Saying
things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride the bus, live in a
trailer"
Don't
get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot from you
over the years both in person and through this list. I take that as
one of my core values is to listen to people, even when I think
they're stupidly wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any
viewpoint and that makes me better in everything I
do.
I just
think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic issues
plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had
it, just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or
should we just keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and
you got yours, so the young kids can go pound sand because their
$18/hr job should suffice. (BTW my first "real" job back in 2008 was
35k a year) I was 19. No schooling, and that would be your $18/hr
now.
In
1990 I was so broke I was sitting on the side of the highway with my
4 kids (at the time) selling everything I had to get a bus ticket to
get out of town to get to a job to make a few bucks to move the
family.
Fast
forward 10 short years and I had enough to retire.
Just
hard work. At 40 no less, not 50.
And
now 33 years later my house is 5 X larger than that.
Hell,
my garage is bigger than that.
And
my only roommates have been my kids.
But
there was some sleeping in dirt and enjoying it at certain periods.
Doncha only wish you could be
like a boomer...
Sent:
Tuesday, February 14, 2023 3:48 PM
Cc:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
lol.
These boomers I swear. Live in your 5 roommate 2000sqft box until
50, retire at 87. Bcck in my day I slept in a dirt pile and we
enjoyed it.
Sent:
Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:54 PM
Cc:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
I
think ages make a huge difference in a lot of this. If you're
talking about a 17 year old, you're still living at home, saving
all your money, trying to get out. Sure, $17 an hour would be
amazing.
If you're 22, you should be able to afford a 1br
apartment on your own, you shouldn't need roommates, you should
expect that you can save 1k a month for the future, maybe purchase
a home by 28? You're going to need to make more than $17 an
hour.
Not sure I am getting your
point. Young people frequently struggle when starting
out. The struggle is valuable. You get ahead by
getting educated, getting trained, learning skills people will
pay you for. You do not deserve anything but free air to
breath and perhaps water if you live in an area where it
rains. You eat what you kill.
In your example below you
are not taking into account, those with half a brain will have
roomates with which to split all the rent and utilities.
That one move makes it go to having plenty of spending
money.
So what is it you want me
to learn here? In 1979 milk was $1/gallon. It is now
$4.33. Same price adjusted for inflation
...
I
do not buy that the kids now-a-days have it any worse than I
did.
Cost of a big mac in 1979
was 95 cents. Today, $4.50, same price adjusted for
inflation...
What do I need to learn
here???
Sent:
Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:58
PM
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] FB
Exchange
Chuck,
I'm going to
assume you're not trying to cherry pick statistics and want to
learn and listen.
Housing is only one part of the
equation. Food, services, fuel, goods are at all time highs.
Rental markets are becoming unfeasible unless living with
roommates. I'm not sure where or how this mobile home fits in
with the work in your area. Is there work in the area for your
daughter to earn $18 an hour?
Talent.com says that at $18
an hour, working for 40 hours a week, gets you $2500 monthly
net.
Going off these assumptions Cost of Living in Utah (2023) |
SoFi
Rent: $1100
Food (No Restaurants):
$253
I
think you yanks have things like health insurance.
$100/mo?
I
haven't thought of everything, but you're already up to
$2200/mo. You don't get ahead because you're behind before you
even start.
Now take into account that the average home
price in Utah is $500k and you cherry picked some bottom of the
barrel trailer. I can't tell if you're being serious or
not.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at
11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com>
wrote:
One of my millennial
daughters, grown, married, trying to adult, lives with her
brother and his wife told me that I just don’t understand how
hard it is today compared to when I was younger. So I
did a little comparison for her:
My first paid job in
1976 was $2/hour. That would be about $10.70/hour
today.
(I was an unpaid
apprentice to a machinist in 1974, and slave labor on the farm
from 1960 until I escaped).
My first skilled,
formally trained, semi professional, utility lineman job in
1979 paid $4.50/hour.
That would be about $18
today.
My first home, single
wide 10 x 50 mobile home cost $12,000 in 1982. Or about
$36K today.
So how is it people have
it so much worse today?
From:
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent:
Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:39
AM
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] FB
Exchange
Too many parents want to
be friends with their kids and not actually parent. Good
news is, if you do a good job of parenting, you’ll likely have
the opportunity out to become friends with your kids after
they move out.
Yeah, that’s a problem
for sure.
All the youth (and
some adults) see online is prosperity and wealth and
entitlement.
Your definition of
existing just doesn’t even come to their minds. To use a
phrase, they literally don’t comprehend
it.
I was living happily
in a one room apartment for $400 a month and eating the same
PB&J and soup for lunch/dinner on almost no monthly
spend.
I had an old futon bed
that I had purchased in college as furniture. My monthly
output was focused on paying rent and a bit for food and my
car.
I was hungry for more,
made my way by learning, taking what I could find and
working my way up.
And during none of
that did I think to myself, “This is shit, I am entitled to
more because I exist.” Lol
My grown kids ask for
very little and even then get told no all the time, or have
conditions.
I worry about my
younger kids that have spent a lot more time online. They
still know they get nothing as a default, but they are more
entitled in language and practice than my older
kids.
Society online in
general isn’t doing anyone any
favors.
I mean some of the
youtube crap they watch is just inane, and some of these
people just throw around money like it magically appeared to
them out of thin air without a
care.
There is no
accountability or explanation.
I advertised for
hiring yesterday, a no experience necessary, get paid to
learn MIG mild steel welding. PT/FT flexible
hours. We hire 17 year olds. I immediately got
crap from this guy saying that the “young people of today”
cannot exist on less than $18/hour which is what he gets and
he works from home.
Lots of people
defended my $15/entry level, get paid to learn welding
position.
He deleted his post
then sent me this:
Our of respect for you
because it wasn't my intent to cause tension, I've deleted
my comment on your posting. My only point was to emphasize
that the going rate for a lot of entry level jobs is much
higher than $15 an hour. Welding is a great skill and can
open up great avenues in the future.
However, The youth of
today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot of candidates will
not even walk through the door because other places even in
the field of welding pay higher to start.
What I emphasized at
my company starting at $18 is just one example. We have
people here that make well over $50 an hour because we
operate on a commission structure. But that $18 base is
livable when a one bedroom is $1000+ in tooele a month and
depending on where you live it's as low as $1600+
Again, never meant to
offend so I am sorry for causing you any
trouble.
So you expect
someone to walk from High School directly into a job where
they can have a nice home, car and things? Wow,
without learning a trade, profession or other
skill? Our $15/hour people take home
$2000/month. Pretty sure someone can exist on that
and the smart ones will have roommates or live with their
parents. And the smarter ones will quickly be making
more than $18/hour. We have exactly zero problems
finding as many workers as we need. So your opinion
that "youth of today" cannot exist on $15/hour is just
that, unfounded opinion. I guess your definition of
"exist" is different than mine. You can exist by
walking, riding a bicycle or taking a bus to work.
You can exist by eating home cooked meals and making a
home made sandwich for your lunch. You can exist by
wearing clothes from a thrift store. You don't need
the latest iPhone and Netflix to exist. Read a
book. The struggle IS the journey and is what
creates grit and strong
character.
He replied and blocked
me:
Yeah Okay Boomer. I
was reaching out to be nice but you clearly have no idea
what life is like for us today. I just bought my first house
at 31 because of how shit things are right now compared to
when you were younger. But thanks for proving my point by
being an asshole about "my definition of
exist"
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