How is that smaller than the current building area of counties? Some of those areas are huge.
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:32 AM, Matt Hoppes <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote: > > > Well this could go on for awhile then. > >>> On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:28 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>> >> >> Here is a map I just made of the PEAs: >> >> >> https://arcg.is/1qK4Hm0 >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> >> >> >> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:11:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> Pease size chunks are good right? That means I can get them cheap in the >> really rural area and may be less expensive in the metro area in the exact >> location I want to cover? >> >> On Jul 31, 2020, at 6:35 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: >> >> You can purchase C band spectrum, but it will be sold in PEA sized chunks. >> Opening prices have been announced, auction starts in December I believe. >> >> Not sure of the short form date but if you are going to bid in it you may >> want to form a group. Unfortunately some of the people you probably want >> to talk with might be in the CBRS auction which can make things difficult >> with the anti-collusion rules. >> >> Mark >> >> On Jul 31, 2020, at 3:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini <g...@aeronetpr.com> wrote: >> >> NO, C-band is going directly to auction block, without any SAS or sharing. >> There are some discussions to bring more CBRS like spectrum under 3550. >> 3300-3550 IIRC >> >> Gino Villarini >> Founder/President >> @gvillarini >> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 >> >> >> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> >> Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 11:37 PM >> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> They are repacking C-band to free up 3700-4000 “for 5G”. Does that mean not >> for us? >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 9:48 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> If the SAS ends up working out really well to protect incumbents can we >> expect more spectrum maybe the next 50-100mhz directly below where the new >> CBRS band is now? >> >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:38 AM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >> wrote: >> >We are looking back into deploying our 900 Aps putting one on each tower >> >with 120 deg sectors at 20Mhz wide and roll with it lol! >> >> That says a lot =( >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:55 PM Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote: >> Mark, >> I had an interesting meeting with Cambium, federated and such to help us >> coordinate our channels and so far it been a bonus by getting all of my Aps >> to 30Mhz wide and shifting the channels so we all coexist >> My issue is whats going to happen in phase 2 >> I am sure Ill wake up and all my APs will be disabled or dropped Eirp >> We are looking back into deploying our 900 Aps putting one on each tower >> with 120 deg sectors at 20Mhz wide and roll with it lol! >> >> On 7/29/2020 12:40 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote: >> At this point it depends on what your SAS is doing. >> >> Federated (at last conversation) was trying to do some GAA coordination but >> they were only looking at their own GAA assignments >> >> Google (at last conversation) was an expensive black box that says “YES” to >> any request as long as it doesn’t impact an incumbent. >> >> I don’t know what the others are doing. >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> On Jul 29, 2020, at 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Not yet. I guess that's still a wish list item. >> >> On 7/29/2020 11:09 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >> Wait, the lower 100 only denys grants if it impala a pal or the elusive >> incumbent? I thought SAS coordination was across the board in that CBRS >> chunk? >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 10:06 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >> If you don’t have a PAL, you are GAA, anywhere in the 150 MHz. The only >> difference is that the upper 50 MHz is GAA only. If you request a frequency >> in 3650-3700 you would never get denied to protect a PAL operator. But >> there could be umpteen other GAA operators using that frequency, so I don’t >> think the SAS needs to consider things like frequency reuse because they >> just automatically approve the grant unless it would impact a PAL protection >> area or an incumbent. Also there can be a max of 7 PALs issued in a county, >> so there should be at least 30 MHz for GAA in the lower 100 MHz. Not a >> specific set of channels though. But again, there could be umpteen WISPs >> all trying to use that 30 MHz and I don’t think the SASes do anything to >> police or coordinate GAA. Even in the case where there is enough GAA >> spectrum in an area to accommodate everyone on separate frequencies, I don’t >> see how they would communicate this to the operators, since they either >> approve or deny grant requests, they don’t suggest gee why don’t you use >> this other frequency instead, it’s open. You have to do your own SA to >> determine that. And repeat regularly. Even if there was a mechanism in the >> protocols to request auto frequency assignment from the SAS, there’s more >> than one SAS. >> >> It’s a very complex system that doesn’t do much if everyone is GAA. Other >> than give us some more spectrum, and do away with LBT (which sucked). >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones >> Sent:Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:44 AM >> To:AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> Subject:Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> there are only 50mhz gaa, im talking about the other 100 operation without >> pal >> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 8:54 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >> With or without PAL? >> >> If you’re GAA, I don’t think they care how you reuse or duplicate >> frequencies between your own sectors or with adjacent GAA users. I think >> you’re giving the SAS too much credit for policing or coordinating frequency >> assignments among GAA users. As long as you’re not stepping on an incumbent >> or a PAL protection area, I think they’ll give you a grant for whatever >> frequency you want. >> >> PAL holders will probably need to work this out though. >> >> From:AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>On Behalf Of Steve Jones >> Sent:Wednesday, July 29, 2020 1:08 AM >> To:AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >> Subject:Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> Is current SAS supporting SFG? if not, how will one reuse frequency now? >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:19 PM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: >> There are several variants: >> >> Single Frequency Groups (SFG) are multiple CBSD’s that all operate on the >> same frequency. If you are going WTF - of course the base station and >> the CPE’s are all a single frequency group - keep in mind that in the mobile >> world the handsets are not CBSD’s. For our purposes each BS and all of >> it’s CPE’s have to be in a single frequency group. This is also for >> frequency reuse - if you use channels A, B, C on your network and reuse them >> in some type of pattern you would designate all of the A’s in one SFG, B’s >> in another, etc. If a SFG has to change channels they all have to change >> together. >> >> Coexistence groups would be systems where timing parameters match. Think >> multiple operators running LTE or a proprietary protocol on a common UL:DL >> ratio. Not all use cases want to use the same UL:DL ratio. >> >> Mark >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:42 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >> >> As far as the SAS is concerned, it's all irrelevant. >> >> They were talking about coexistence groups where a group of operators could >> have overlapping assignments because the operators are using some mechanism >> to coexist in the channels assigned. I don't know if those made it to the >> end, nor what form they've taken. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> >> >> From:"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 5:11:04 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> Not at all. If I am running the same standard as someone else and the same >> split then I can synchronize with them and we aren’t going to interfere even >> if we’re relatively close. If on the other hand we are not running the same >> standards in the same split then we are going to interfere with each other >> even if we are very far away from each other. >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >> >> The standards and settings are irrelevant. Tx power - loss = receive power. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> >> >> From:"Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:55:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> How does the SASI sure there will be no interference? Since you can run so >> many different standards and settings? >> >> >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Yep, and anyone not operating in cbrs without SAS gets big dollar reminders >> to stop >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 3:59 PM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> Josh, >> >> You will have interference protection through the SAS so that someone just >> can't blindly fire up right on top of your channel right next to you. Every >> AP has to get a grant from SAS before it can transmit. Also if Demand says >> 15 there is no way to tell if that is 15 individual bidders or if 4-5 >> bidders are trying to bid on 4x10mhz channels each. We will know when the >> auction is over more info but while the auction is taking place everything >> is a secret. >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 4:09 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >> wrote: >> Well if you do licensed PTP links it seems you don't get any kind of >> interference protection if someone else doesn't play by the rules and they >> don't get any punishment for doing so... >> >> If you think CBRS will give you interference free protection I'd love to >> know you do because I don't feel that's going to be a game changer for >> hitting customers. >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:42 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> drinking! They be purchased after the auction? >> Divided over 10 years, it's a manageable number for interference free >> spectrum. What do you pay per year in interference related truck rolls, tech >> time and list satisfaction? >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 12:06 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >> Obviously the last round is public knowledge. After the auction is over, are >> the results of all rounds public information? >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> >> >> From:"Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net> >> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:11:20 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far >> >> Correct - no way to tell who is bidding. The complete list of bidders is >> public knowledge: >> https://www.fcc.gov/document/auction-105-35-ghz-qualified-bidders >> >> Which counties those 271 bidders are bidding on is only known by the FCC >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >> wrote: >> >> I assume the 14 or 15 bidders is a closely guarded secret? I can't begin to >> think who would be able to pay 30k around here for that besides >> Verizon/AT&T/Sprint... >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 11:37 AM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: >> Note that the confidentiality and anti collusion rules apply for anyone who >> filed the short form. Be very careful that what you say in here does not >> violate the FCC rules. >> >> Everything discussed so far is from the public information the FCC is >> releasing or from the auction public notice. >> >> To read the results Josh posted: >> >> The price does not include discounts - 75% of the posted price if you >> qualified as being under 25M/year in revenue - so closer to 27k There is >> also a rural provider credit. >> >> It reads: >> >> In the initial round the price of one 10Mhz PAL was $21,000 not counting any >> discounts you may have been eligible for. There were 14 bids at that price, >> with only 7 lots available. >> In the second round the price of one PAL was $24,000 (less discounts). >> There were 15 bids at that price, with only 7 available. >> >> In the 5th round the price for one PAL went up to $33,000 (less discounts) >> with demand down to 10 PAL’s. The price went up for ALL 7 of the PAL’s. >> >> The price will keep going up until the demand is equal to 7. Once demand >> gets to 7 there is still a posted price increase - but unless someone adds >> additional demand the price will stay at the previous start of round price. >> >> The price/demand could sit at 7 for the next (insert number) of rounds and >> then start going back up if another bidder decides they are priced out of >> one county and want to move to another county. Or if they are just playing >> games. >> >> Once a county is at or above a demand for 7 PAL’s the price won’t go down. >> If you get a PAL in a round and later decide you don’t want it, you are >> stuck buying it unless someone else bids at the higher price. You can >> change your demand to 0, saying you don’t want it anymore, but unless >> someone else wants it you are stuck with it. Just like a normal auction - >> once you are the winning bidder, you own it unless someone outbids you. >> >> For bidders there are required activity levels that you have to meet. >> Essentially you have to bid 95% of your initial deposit on each round. If >> you don’t bid that what you are allowed to bid in the next round goes down. >> The rule is basically to keep bidders from sandbagging - if you haven’t >> been bidding and are just waiting to see what others are going to do you >> will run out of eligibility pretty quickly. >> >> Mark >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Cassidy B. Larson <c...@infowest.com> wrote: >> >> It’s up to 37k per 10mhz block. Demand is going down though! lol >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 28, 2020, at 08:22, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >> >> No idea how to read this: >> >> <image.png> >> >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:20 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> Josh, >> >> Is your county up to 30k per 10mhz block? >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:08 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Assuming it's too late at this point to get into the initial rounds that are >> taking place this week? >> >> Haven't really been keeping up with this. >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I also lost track of the whole auction situation. Will there be another >> round later? Seems like nobody bid on some of the counties around us, and I >> wish I'd thrown in a minimum bid at this point. >> >> On 7/28/2020 12:40 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >> Our starting bid was relatively inexpensive over the ten year term for our 5 >> counties and 4 pals each. Almost had the boss talked into giving it serious >> consideration so i could pull the trigger on the auction. then the world >> ended and that got back burnered. byt the time we came back to it there was >> no time to learn enough about the auction >> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:54 PM Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote: >> My guess is none... >> >> Im sooo sick of the BS games the FCC and 'BIG BOYZ' Are playing. >> >> So funny how they say "Sure anyone can get a pal" >> >> FCC should have shoved a big FU to all WISPs and just let us die. >> >> When I first saw the pricing on our county and surrounding countys for >> bid I knew there was no chance. >> >> Let the lawsuits FLY... >> >> >> On 7/27/2020 5:51 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: >> > On 7/27/20 15:42, Mark Radabaugh wrote: >> >> https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/auction105 >> >> >> > >> > >> > I'm curious to see how many WISPs actually get a PAL when this is all >> > done. >> > >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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