There are several variants: Single Frequency Groups (SFG) are multiple CBSD’s that all operate on the same frequency. If you are going WTF - of course the base station and the CPE’s are all a single frequency group - keep in mind that in the mobile world the handsets are not CBSD’s. For our purposes each BS and all of it’s CPE’s have to be in a single frequency group. This is also for frequency reuse - if you use channels A, B, C on your network and reuse them in some type of pattern you would designate all of the A’s in one SFG, B’s in another, etc. If a SFG has to change channels they all have to change together.
Coexistence groups would be systems where timing parameters match. Think multiple operators running LTE or a proprietary protocol on a common UL:DL ratio. Not all use cases want to use the same UL:DL ratio. Mark > On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:42 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > As far as the SAS is concerned, it's all irrelevant. > > They were talking about coexistence groups where a group of operators could > have overlapping assignments because the operators are using some mechanism > to coexist in the channels assigned. I don't know if those made it to the > end, nor what form they've taken. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 5:11:04 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > Not at all. If I am running the same standard as someone else and the same > split then I can synchronize with them and we aren’t going to interfere even > if we’re relatively close. If on the other hand we are not running the same > standards in the same split then we are going to interfere with each other > even if we are very far away from each other. > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > > > The standards and settings are irrelevant. Tx power - loss = receive power. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:55:27 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > How does the SASI sure there will be no interference? Since you can run so > many different standards and settings? > > > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yep, and anyone not operating in cbrs without SAS gets big dollar reminders > to stop > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 3:59 PM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com > <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Josh, > > You will have interference protection through the SAS so that someone just > can't blindly fire up right on top of your channel right next to you. Every > AP has to get a grant from SAS before it can transmit. Also if Demand says 15 > there is no way to tell if that is 15 individual bidders or if 4-5 bidders > are trying to bid on 4x10mhz channels each. We will know when the auction is > over more info but while the auction is taking place everything is a secret. > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 4:09 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: > Well if you do licensed PTP links it seems you don't get any kind of > interference protection if someone else doesn't play by the rules and they > don't get any punishment for doing so... > > If you think CBRS will give you interference free protection I'd love to know > you do because I don't feel that's going to be a game changer for hitting > customers. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:42 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote: > drinking! They be purchased after the auction? > Divided over 10 years, it's a manageable number for interference free > spectrum. What do you pay per year in interference related truck rolls, tech > time and list satisfaction? > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 12:06 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net > <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote: > Obviously the last round is public knowledge. After the auction is over, are > the results of all rounds public information? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net>> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:11:20 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Auction results so far > > Correct - no way to tell who is bidding. The complete list of bidders is > public knowledge: > https://www.fcc.gov/document/auction-105-35-ghz-qualified-bidders > <https://www.fcc.gov/document/auction-105-35-ghz-qualified-bidders> > > Which counties those 271 bidders are bidding on is only known by the FCC > > Mark > > > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: > > I assume the 14 or 15 bidders is a closely guarded secret? I can't begin to > think who would be able to pay 30k around here for that besides > Verizon/AT&T/Sprint... > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 11:37 AM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net > <mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote: > Note that the confidentiality and anti collusion rules apply for anyone who > filed the short form. Be very careful that what you say in here does not > violate the FCC rules. > > Everything discussed so far is from the public information the FCC is > releasing or from the auction public notice. > > To read the results Josh posted: > > The price does not include discounts - 75% of the posted price if you > qualified as being under 25M/year in revenue - so closer to 27k There is > also a rural provider credit. > > It reads: > > In the initial round the price of one 10Mhz PAL was $21,000 not counting any > discounts you may have been eligible for. There were 14 bids at that price, > with only 7 lots available. > In the second round the price of one PAL was $24,000 (less discounts). > There were 15 bids at that price, with only 7 available. > > In the 5th round the price for one PAL went up to $33,000 (less discounts) > with demand down to 10 PAL’s. The price went up for ALL 7 of the PAL’s. > > The price will keep going up until the demand is equal to 7. Once demand > gets to 7 there is still a posted price increase - but unless someone adds > additional demand the price will stay at the previous start of round price. > > The price/demand could sit at 7 for the next (insert number) of rounds and > then start going back up if another bidder decides they are priced out of one > county and want to move to another county. Or if they are just playing games. > > Once a county is at or above a demand for 7 PAL’s the price won’t go down. > If you get a PAL in a round and later decide you don’t want it, you are > stuck buying it unless someone else bids at the higher price. You can > change your demand to 0, saying you don’t want it anymore, but unless someone > else wants it you are stuck with it. Just like a normal auction - once you > are the winning bidder, you own it unless someone outbids you. > > For bidders there are required activity levels that you have to meet. > Essentially you have to bid 95% of your initial deposit on each round. If > you don’t bid that what you are allowed to bid in the next round goes down. > The rule is basically to keep bidders from sandbagging - if you haven’t been > bidding and are just waiting to see what others are going to do you will run > out of eligibility pretty quickly. > > Mark > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Cassidy B. Larson <c...@infowest.com > <mailto:c...@infowest.com>> wrote: > > It’s up to 37k per 10mhz block. Demand is going down though! lol > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 28, 2020, at 08:22, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: > > > No idea how to read this: > > <image.png> > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:20 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com > <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Josh, > > Is your county up to 30k per 10mhz block? > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:08 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com > <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Assuming it's too late at this point to get into the initial rounds that are > taking place this week? > > Haven't really been keeping up with this. > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com > <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote: > I also lost track of the whole auction situation. Will there be another > round later? Seems like nobody bid on some of the counties around us, and I > wish I'd thrown in a minimum bid at this point. > > On 7/28/2020 12:40 AM, Steve Jones wrote: > Our starting bid was relatively inexpensive over the ten year term for our 5 > counties and 4 pals each. Almost had the boss talked into giving it serious > consideration so i could pull the trigger on the auction. then the world > ended and that got back burnered. byt the time we came back to it there was > no time to learn enough about the auction > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:54 PM Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com > <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote: > My guess is none... > > Im sooo sick of the BS games the FCC and 'BIG BOYZ' Are playing. > > So funny how they say "Sure anyone can get a pal" > > FCC should have shoved a big FU to all WISPs and just let us die. > > When I first saw the pricing on our county and surrounding countys for > bid I knew there was no chance. > > Let the lawsuits FLY... > > > On 7/27/2020 5:51 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: > > On 7/27/20 15:42, Mark Radabaugh wrote: > >> https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/auction105 > >> <https://auctiondata.fcc.gov/public/projects/auction105> > >> > > > > > > I'm curious to see how many WISPs actually get a PAL when this is all > > done. > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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