Problem is, there is no source of news you can trust. They all have a bias.
Actually that applies to all people, they all have a bias.
So, I read CNN and MSNBC then average it with FOX and compare with RT and Al
Jazzera and then if that averages with BBC I will run with that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Webster
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:32 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Is that all they are doing? I do not know and do not expect anyone who is
not directly involved in the activities to know at this stage, but it is
very plausible that they are doing what is within their authority.
Speculation by the media is not in itself reason either. Fact is people
should do their due diligence and try to find out their own facts. Leaving
that job up to a journalist and hanging your hat, opinion, and perception on
a journalist these days probably not the wisest plan of action. But if a
person wants to have an echo chamber opinion, they should go ahead and pick
the media outlet that supports their point of view and stick with them. All
media outlets these days have a major bias like we have never seen before.
One side or the other, doesn't matter. Journalistic integrity is not what it
used to be yet it would seem most of society is quick to question everything
and everyone except the media.
I know that if I lived in this area I would expect my constitutional rights
to be protected as a citizen with freedom of movement in those neighborhoods
and have access to my place of business or residence. A government letting a
whole region of a city be taken over like what happened in Seattle is
absurd. That was an invasion and take over plain and simple. Protests are
one thing, occupying a place and keeping cops out and not having 100%
agreement by all those in the occupied area is nothing short than an act of
war and at minimum domestic terrorism. Plain and simple. If you do not
believe that, seriously ask yourself if you would be ok if that happened to
you on your own property or property you own for your place of business.
That is a hostage/kidnap situation. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of your
own happiness has been taken away. Blocking you from police, fire or EMS
protection is shameful and illegal. Any politician that does not look at
things that way is a puppet and hypocrite, especially when they have their
own guards and security protecting them. At least in Portland the Feds
starting not to allow that to happen in the Federal park or give them any
more base of operations to try and accomplish that in that city. The word
"occupy" is always thrown around by pacifists in a different context about
our worldwide military presence than how they support it for these types of
protests, it's not any different in definition on our own soil even if you
do agree with the political position or cause. No other person should be
able to take control like that and deny you the rights you are provided in
this country.
I guess my point is, don't let just one type of information intake form your
outrage. Speak to others that may have different input and knowledge (but
please do it in a civil way and with the intent to listen not just answer
back). This Portland situation likely started from just clearing the park
and then massive outrage flames were fanned based on people not realizing
that they were on federal land in the first place and those officers were
there to protect the property and enforce those laws.
Executive orders......not a fan of them. They can easily be misused and
usually a plan of last resort when there is political deadlock. An executive
order that says protect federal property? I would expect that every federal
officer knows that is their job. Heck every military person knows that is
their job. The first general order of a sentry is "to take charge of this
post and all government property in view". Was it an actual executive order
issued or was it more of a memo with the president reminding people that is
what needs to be done. Rioting and tearing down statues and defacing federal
(and by default taxpayer) property seems very divisive at this point.
Letting things devolve to more than that when the group has "Occupy" in
their name and cause should be treated as such and not considered just a
protest. Their intent is stated in the name.
Thank you,
Brian Webster
-----Original Message-----
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 12:55 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
It doesn't all stem from clearing a park. That might not be what you're
trying to say, but it could be read that way.
The reason people are pointing a finger at the current administration is
there was an executive order signed a few weeks ago ordering federal
agencies to protect federal property, and that seems to be a direct
response to the ongoing protests. They can bring in this variety of
agencies because the Homeland Security Act of 2002 allows them to
deputize other federal agents to assist:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/politics/federal-agents-portland-arrests.html
So the justification is protecting federal property, but is that all
they're doing? No political motivations of any kind here? And while I'm
sure that they have the legal authority for all of this, isn't it ok to
ask whether they should?
On 7/20/2020 12:04 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
In Portland part of the protest and occupy movement protesters were trying
to camp out in a FEDERAL PARK downtown. This attempt to occupy federal
property has not happened in other cities that I am aware of and hence the
different agencies involved. That Park director requested more federal law
enforcement help in getting the people off the park grounds and not allow
them to camp there. This was not a case of the black helicopters coming
and federal officers taking over local law enforcement authority from the
locals. If was Federal Law Enforcement protecting federal property. In ALL
law enforcement agencies it is not unusual for plain clothes officers,
detectives etc. to have unmarked vehicles and use them when making
arrests. This is hardly unusual police activity if you look at the whole
picture. Local law enforcement does this type of thing all of the time. If
these federal officers had identified people who committed a crime on
federal property and then fled, they are within their law enforcement
powers to directly pursue and apprehend them even if the apprehension is
not on federal property. Local and state officers have the same powers.
It's not typically used but it's not unheard of for say a police officer
to pursue someone who they believe has committed a felony and cross a
state line. That officer is fully empowered to make that arrest in the
other state. It has happened many times and the laws have been upheld to
allow for this. There are also still the power to effect a citizen's
arrest as well. Nobody likes to do it because it gets messy legally after
the fact but that is still allowed in this country.
Before people get outraged at what the press is telling them is happening,
they should take a step back and gather their own facts and knowledge and
not be so quick to accept some "experts" statements. You all know how bad
a journalist can butcher up a technical article on stuff we do and work
with, what makes us think they are any smarter in the field of law or
medicine?
https://kval.com/news/local/police-remove-occupy-portland-campers-from-park?fbclid=IwAR0dSQqKXj_ikwqmSfvMvvPtOVoFVhGjwrH126Lhiomx3iZXlxTUGtT2S7E
"This morning, at request and at the lead of the US Federal Protective
Service, the Portland Police helped remove campers at Shrunk Plaza, which
is federal property across the street from Chapman Square," Adams wrote.
"The campers who were arrested - an estimated 8 to 10 people - at Shrunk
Plaza were detained by federal police and cited under US federal law.
Initial reports indicate arrests were completed in a peaceful manner."
Thank you,
Brian Webster
-----Original Message-----
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:41 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
I don't think I'd like it if Obama had dispatched federal troops to
"Republican-led cities" claiming they are stupidly and conservatively run.
It also doesn't make me comfortable having Ken Cuccinelli driving this.
Not a guy who should have the power to send troops to your city for
political reasons, or any reason. Andy Taylor would make him keep his one
bullet in his shirt pocket.
-----Original Message-----
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 10:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
The US Border Patrol is a part of the Immigration and Naturalization
Service.
--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net
On Mon July 20 2020 10:14, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I thought I read they admitted to being Customs & Border Patrol, at
least in Portland. But yes other reports say that a force was
assembled from various federal agencies so maybe also US Marshals.
They have been using border patrol in questionable ways for awhile,
like setting up roadblocks on highways hundreds of miles from any border.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:56 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
The National Guard is a state resource. I think he can request it, but
I'm not sure he can command it.
What I read, they were US Marshals, and other unidentified federal
resources.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 7/20/2020 7:41 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Yeah, you gotta wonder what their orders were.
Doesn’t a president normally activate the National Guard when extra
help is needed?
These guys were – what? Homeland Security? ICE?
From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >
wrote:
Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam.
I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown
and busting heads of those that did not clear out. Actually one of my
first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy? I don’t get
it.
Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you
is pretty childish.
--
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
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