In this area, 24 GHz works reliably at 2 to 2-1/2 miles. We have
several links at these distances for years now, and they just stay
up. One of them faded out this year; not from rain, but when one
end of the link had the radome covered with a couple inches of
snow/ice. The snow/ice would have killed other frequencies as
well. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very often; it's the first
time it happened in over 5 years.
We also, for some time, had a 24 GHz link at 9+ miles. It did
fade, but was surprisingly reliable. I'm not advocating for such a
link (and we replaced this one some time ago), but rain is widely
variable in different regions. I would advise differently for
someone in Illinois (for example).
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
Anything that's more than ~1 mile is going to drop (at least occasionally, unless it never rains) with either 80ghz or 24ghz, and realistically, if a storm takes down an 80ghz link it's going to take down a 24ghz link to... it might only be down 5 minutes instead of 6 minutes, but it's still going to go down.
If we ignore rain fade, then 80ghz actually should have significantly better range than 24ghz, because the allowed EIRP is so much higher.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
--My recollection is that WISPs who have tried 24 GHz even at 2 miles have been frustrated with the performance when it rains. Maybe it depends on your definition of moderate rain zone.
I think part of the problem with rain fade is that it doesn’t get 6 dB worse at twice the distance, it doubles (unless the link is long enough that it never rains over the entire linke).
So if you have 40 dB fades at 1 mile, you’ll have 80 dB fades at 2 miles. You’re not going to make that up with xmt power or antenna size.
But speaking of transmit power, that’s another problem at 24 GHz, the regulatory EIRP limit is quite low.
We tend to talk like it’s all about which equipment vendor is better. Is Ubiquiti better than Aviat? But a lot of it is physics and regulatory. And maybe climate change. It reminds me of winter tires. You can pay twice as much, but the performance on ice might only be 10% better. There’s only so much you can do vs. laws of physics. And states outlawing studded tires because they tear up the roads.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:12 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm pretty sure it isn't that far.
bp<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Is the range equivalent?
From: Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and 10x the throughput!
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of the other manufacturers.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:
Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
It may be WISPA member pricing.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes - this is the WTM4800.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full DuplexThe best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with dishes and everything.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:
Good choice Lewis!
We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast! Been really amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on keepin on!!
-Sean
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific requirements.
If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get, then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band, so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider. Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs... they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam forming antenna, so they're about 100000x easier to aim then the Ignitenets (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same time.
If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps aggregate.
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
No way I would consider AF24HD for this. You can get 80ghz links for less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat. Aviat probably gives you the best bang for your buck. Cambium has a new mmWave product, but I don't know anything about it.
Josh
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all of your 5g spectrum and
there is the ptp850E
On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product selector returns no matches .
Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
Anything else I should be aware of?
--Lewis Bergman
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