i have a couple 3 mile AF24 links (non-hd) that have been up for 6
months never dropped once and we have had some decent rainstorms
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:22 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In this area, 24 GHz works reliably at 2 to 2-1/2 miles. We have several
> links at these distances for years now, and they just stay up. One of them
> faded out this year; not from rain, but when one end of the link had the
> radome covered with a couple inches of snow/ice. The snow/ice would have
> killed other frequencies as well. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very
> often; it's the first time it happened in over 5 years.
>
> We also, for some time, had a 24 GHz link at 9+ miles. It did fade, but
> was surprisingly reliable. I'm not advocating for such a link (and we
> replaced this one some time ago), but rain is widely variable in different
> regions. I would advise differently for someone in Illinois (for example).
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 2/26/2020 10:14 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Anything that's more than ~1 mile is going to drop (at least occasionally,
> unless it never rains) with either 80ghz or 24ghz, and realistically, if a
> storm takes down an 80ghz link it's going to take down a 24ghz link to...
> it might only be down 5 minutes instead of 6 minutes, but it's still going
> to go down.
>
> If we ignore rain fade, then 80ghz actually should have significantly
> better range than 24ghz, because the allowed EIRP is so much higher.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> My recollection is that WISPs who have tried 24 GHz even at 2 miles have
>> been frustrated with the performance when it rains. Maybe it depends on
>> your definition of moderate rain zone.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think part of the problem with rain fade is that it doesn’t get 6 dB
>> worse at twice the distance, it doubles (unless the link is long enough
>> that it never rains over the entire linke).
>>
>>
>>
>> So if you have 40 dB fades at 1 mile, you’ll have 80 dB fades at 2
>> miles. You’re not going to make that up with xmt power or antenna size.
>>
>>
>>
>> But speaking of transmit power, that’s another problem at 24 GHz, the
>> regulatory EIRP limit is quite low.
>>
>>
>>
>> We tend to talk like it’s all about which equipment vendor is better. Is
>> Ubiquiti better than Aviat? But a lot of it is physics and regulatory.
>> And maybe climate change. It reminds me of winter tires. You can pay
>> twice as much, but the performance on ice might only be 10% better.
>> There’s only so much you can do vs. laws of physics. And states outlawing
>> studded tires because they tear up the roads.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:12 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and
>> maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm
>> pretty sure it isn't that far.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Is the range equivalent?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>>
>>
>> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and
>> 10x the throughput!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
>> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
>> the other manufacturers.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>
>>
>>
>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>
>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>> dishes and everything.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:
>>
>> Good choice Lewis!
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast! Been really
>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>> keepin on!!
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>> requirements.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
>> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
>> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>
>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>> forming antenna, so they're about 100000x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>
>>
>>
>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
>> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
>> time.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>> aggregate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>>
>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this. You can get 80ghz links for
>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>
>>
>>
>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat. Aviat
>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck. Cambium has a new mmWave
>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all
>> of your 5g spectrum and
>> there is the ptp850E
>>
>>
>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>> selector returns no matches .
>>
>>
>>
>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>> --
>>
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>
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