Herbert
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 11:59 AM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've often wondered what the "H" stands for.
>
> I presume it's Harold from the Lord's prayer (Our Father who art in
> heaven, Harold be thy name), but I'm no scholar.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 11/19/2019 8:42 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Jesus H Christ, we have major bridges that you can look though the road
> deck to the water below, and they want those same people to build and
> maintain a fiber infrastructure we rely on? At least fiber cant start
> forrest fires
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 8:30 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> Not a customer, I can’t reach them. Probably nobody can, other than
>> mobile or satellite.
>>
>>
>>
>> Or maybe the govt will get them free fiber by taxing Google and Apple,
>> like the Labour Party is promising in the UK. Vermin Supreme needs to
>> update his campaign promises, free ponies are so dated, like Dr. Evil
>> demanding only 1 million dollars.
>>
>>
>>
>> Honestly, with mobile carriers promising rural fixed wireless, and SpaceX
>> and others promising LEO satellite broadband for everyone, I’m thinking we
>> need to worry less about serving every last house in our service area. And
>> if a few people have to get their TV the old fashioned way, it’s not the
>> end of the world (although climate change might be).
>>
>>
>>
>> And while I’m babbling on, last Sunday the New York Times magazine was a
>> special feature on the Internet. It had a map of broadband availability,
>> with broadband defined as 100 Mbps download. Oh, those poor disadvantaged
>> people with access to a mere 25 or 50 Mbps. They won’t be able to stream
>> Disney+ and Stadia in 4K on more than 2 or 3 devices at a time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, and I see that EFF is proposing that Congress should allocate the
>> money from C-band auctions to building universal fiber infrastructure:
>>
>>
>> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/11/fcc-about-raise-billions-congress-should-invest-it-fiber-infrastructure
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 18, 2019 10:24 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tired of entitled streamers
>>
>>
>>
>> Out of curiosity to the original post'er, how much is that customer
>> paying monthly for their package that they are expecting to watch 4 TV's
>> on? Maybe you are not pricing you packages properly? Here is how we do it:
>>
>>
>>
>> Package A - $49.95 - (advertised as capable of 1 SD video stream)
>>
>> Package B - $64.95 - (advertised as capable of 1 HD video stream) ***
>> most popular package
>>
>> Package C - $89.95 - (advertised as capable of 2 HD video stream)
>>
>> Package D - $119.95 - (advertised as capable of 3 HD video stream)
>>
>>
>>
>> We are using Procera to build these packages this way. We tell the
>> customer right up front about the # of video streams supported on each
>> package. Never have had a complaint. This pricing model above is very close
>> to what the household would be paying for DirecTV/Dish to watch 4 TV's at
>> the same time. So why not YOU get that revenue instead of DirecTV? I
>> learned 4 years ago that people are willing to pay for the ability to
>> stream and the # of streams per household. I see the average cost of
>> service going from the $65/month average now to the $100/month average over
>> the next 5 years. Start building your networks NOW to support this. PMP450
>> is what saved our ass 5 years ago. We tried out EPMP (first generation) and
>> quickly stayed with the 450 and it was the best decision we ever made. I
>> have SM's in the the field (original 5ghz 450's) that will still be serving
>> customers 5 years from now and those radios will be 10 years old. What
>> other radio can last 10 years of usefulness? (of course we will probably be
>> running Medusa AP's at that point on the tower side).
>>
>>
>>
>> We have 4 other WISPS in the area and we are still beating all of them
>> because we are the only one that can offer 50mbps packages in a rural area.
>> There is no cable here. DSL is 1mbps. People are paying us $300+ installs
>> and in some cases $500.00 installs and they are NOT BATTING AN EYE. If you
>> can get bandwidth to their house they are willing to pay huge prices. Hell
>> they are paying $1200.00 each for 3-4 smartphones in their house so why
>> wouldn't they be willing to pay $400 for internet to use that phone to its
>> potential?
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't sell yourself short. Charge the big bucks. Money you left at the
>> table you will never get back....
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM dave via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I know wut ya mean...
>> We have 23 sites both rural and urban sites and our heaviest sites sit
>> both urban and rural
>> with 2 cable providers and all the other mobile and satellite options in
>> our area.
>> We use Medusa on 5 of our largest sites and everything else falls within
>> 450i or epmp operations.
>> The smallest backhall is a Force200 link where everything else is all
>> ptp670 or 11ghz 1Gb
>> I think we have a few ptp550 links in there somewhere.
>>
>> We just put our best foot forward on performance,quality and reliability
>> as well as local support.
>>
>>
>> On 11/17/19 9:25 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> If that’s all it costs you, kudos.
>>
>>
>>
>> But we’re running out of spectrum at many towers (there are other WISPs
>> throughout our service area), plus we also have to add backhaul capacity,
>> and all that uses power so we need more batteries. We’re having to run
>> backhauls in licensed spectrum, even to micropops. And we’re having to add
>> “small cells” to get closer to customers. Because with all the streaming
>> we can’t have customers at low modulations, and to reach those customers
>> who move to a low spot surrounded by trees, and to deal with spectrum
>> exhaustion. All this costs a lot more than $300.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have 3.65GHz sites fed via 11 GHz with 10 subscribers. The only way
>> that makes money is averaging over all our sites. And still we can’t build
>> enough micropops to get LOS to everyone who chooses to live down by a creek
>> surrounded by trees. Yesterday I checked photos from 3 of our towers to a
>> prospective customer and the only thing we could see was a little of the
>> peak of a 40 ft barn with big gaping holes in the roof that would be unsafe
>> to walk on, and that was on an old micropop where we’re out of backhaul
>> capacity to sell 20+ Mbps speeds (it’s actually fed via an SM from another
>> tower, something we don’t do anymore). They apparently bought the house
>> from an elderly couple, at their previous house they had gigabit Metronet
>> fiber. Well, that was pretty sweet, maybe you shouldn’t have moved.
>>
>>
>>
>> Honestly, I think the only real, long-term solution to rural broadband is
>> FTTH. The problem of course is money. And with several companies
>> launching thousands of LEO satellites promising broadband for everyone, I
>> think that will suppress even further any large investments in rural
>> broadband. Investors would also have to weigh how serious the mobile
>> carriers are about rural fixed wireless, is it just marketing hype and
>> lobbying to regulators as it has been in the past?
>>
>>
>>
>> I do find it ironic that we have low flush toilets, energy efficient
>> appliances, LED light bulbs, alternate day lawn watering, and mandated fuel
>> efficiency for vehicles, yet conspicuous consumption of Internet bandwidth
>> seems to be our patriotic duty. With all the content moving to streaming
>> services like Disney+ and content being priced high to cable companies but
>> disruptively low for streaming, it’s clear there won’t be a choice,
>> traditional broadcast and cable TV is dying and everyone will have to get
>> their TV via the Internet. It’s like having to get a cellphone because
>> there aren’t any payphones anymore, the train is leaving and you either buy
>> a ticket or get left behind. For awhile though, people do have a choice,
>> you can still put up a TV antenna or get satellite TV. It’s becoming 500
>> channels of crap though.
>>
>>
>>
>> Still, if you have gigabit fiber where you live now, maybe don’t move to
>> Green Acres unless you really like doing country stuff. Or at least cut
>> down some of the damn trees. Sheesh, miles and miles of open fields, and
>> then 75 foot trees all around your house.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On
>> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:43 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
>> <af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tired of entitled streamers
>>
>>
>>
>> I get that. But my point is - if this is truly a rural environment it
>> costs maybe $300 to add another access point for capacity.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just don’t see the point in penalizing customers when the cost to add
>> capacity is so low.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would say it more nicely, but IMO there's a very valid point here.
>> Having been at both a 100% rural WISP and an urban WISP running side by
>> side with cable I can say that it's less stressful for you if the
>> unsatisfied customers have a real option to leave. It forces you to stay
>> on top of your game, but also allows a pressure valve to release the
>> customers you can never satisfy. And wouldn't we all like to have only the
>> low to median usage and non-complaining customers? I don't see anything
>> wrong with trying to strategically dis-incentivize the ones you don't want.
>>
>> In Darin's shoes the thing I'd try to remember is that the GB values are
>> going to be a moving target trending ever upwards. You'll have to evaluate
>> and probably raise those GB allowances every year to keep the median
>> customers satisfied and maintain that balance.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/16/2019 3:07 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>>
>>
>> You can simply go away. We have competitor wisp's and many have poor
>> reviews. We simply do it best and have the highest Facebook ratings of any
>> ISP.
>>
>>
>>
>> We simply want to make heavy users pay more. Why should we raise prices
>> for all customers when only a small percentage are the ones driving us to
>> upgrade things? I'll take 5 average customers at 200gb per month over one
>> customer using 1TB.
>>
>>
>>
>> You may be a tech guy but not understand business very well. The point of
>> this is to drive away bad customers and keep good ones. Good customers will
>> not be penalized with these plans. Fewer customers with the same amount of
>> revenue means higher profit, plain and simple.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:52 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>> Wow. Yikes. If I was in your area you’d be driving me to start a
>> competing ISP with you.
>>
>>
>>
>> You’ll drive your users away.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seriously. It doesn’t cost that much to upgrade a tower or backhaul to
>> support more capacity.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2019, at 2:18 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> We're moving away from "truly unlimited" plans and going to unlimited
>> with X amount of high-speed data between noon and midnight.
>>
>>
>>
>> For example, we'll have plans with high-speed data amounts of 65, 300,
>> 600, 900, 1200, 1800GB a month with that data only being counted 12 hours
>> each day. Outside noon to midnight, the data will not count to encourage
>> them to shift large downloads to our off peak times. If they insist on
>> streaming on 4 devices during peak and using 100GB per day like some homes,
>> their bill will be well over $250 a month. Here is our rural pricing for
>> these proposed plans. Once they hit their threshold, they slow down to 1
>> mbps. We will never have overage charges so they're in full control of
>> their cost. Either they lower their usage or pay more to continue the high
>> usage.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I call abusive usage continues to increase and I feel we need to
>> have plans like these to make heavy users pay for the cost of us upgrading
>> our gear earlier than planned for. These plans are also still way better
>> than any satellite plan in terms of caps and latency.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 35 Meg/65GB - $65
>>
>> 25 Meg/300GB - $90 35 Meg/600GB - $110
>>
>> 45 Meg/900GB - $130
>>
>> 55 Meg/1,200GB - $150
>>
>> 55-100 Meg/1,800GB - $200
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 11:50 AM Nate Burke <n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Give them what you sell them. If they call in more than 3 times
>> complaining then say 'you obviously can't provide them the experience
>> they're expecting, and that you'll be out in a few days to remove the
>> equipment.' That should either silence them, or push them to hughesnet and
>> they can see what being rural really means.
>>
>> On 11/16/2019 11:31 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Anybody else losing their patience with streamers?
>>
>>
>>
>> The people who just moved from somewhere they had gigabit fiber to the
>> middle of nowhere in a low spot surrounded by tons of trees, and say they
>> stream all their TV on 3-4 screens at the same time.
>>
>>
>>
>> I want to yell at them, if you had affordable blazing fast Internet, and
>> it’s that important to you, why did you move? And if you had to move, why
>> didn’t you move to a nice suburb with fiber or at least cable? And why do
>> you have to stream everything? You could get satellite TV. Yes, it’s
>> expensive, get over it. You could put up a TV antenna. You could get DVDs
>> by mail. Or if moving to the country was so important, you could go out on
>> the ATV or horse or snowmobile, or go hunting, or feed the chickens and
>> mini goats. If they’re streaming all the time, I have to suspect the
>> reason for moving to Green Acres was to save on property taxes, and the
>> reason for streaming is to avoid paying $200/month to DirecTV or DISH.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s gotten so bad, a significant number of prospective customers say
>> they only want Internet to stream, anything else they can do on their
>> phone. And when a streaming subscription is sub $10 (or free with Amazon
>> Prime), they’re thinking Internet is like shipping, it shouldn’t cost more
>> than the item being delivered.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know, “OK boomer”.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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